Here is an interesting read penned by veteran classical recording engineer Tony Faulkner Hi-Rez Reality Thom
Interesting indeed; thanks for the link. IMO, though, TF's taking aim at the wrong enemy. Vinyl will never again be the mass carrier, and redbook CD can be better, so why not go for hi-rez? The real threat is not from DVD-A or SACD, but from MP3 and other lossy compression schemes. I find it odd that TF would rather hear redbook on an expensive platform than SACD on a similarly priced unit--at least, that's the implication I took from his piece.
I'm pleased to see someone else thinking and saying this. In the comparisons of SACD and CD that I've been able to do, the SACD replay on the best player I've been able to grab (Marantz 8260) is around on a par with CD playback on my Meridian. In some aspects the SACD playback is better; in other aspects the CD playback is better. But - and get this - my CD player is 7 years old (a 20 bit Meridian 508). I've never heard anything from a SACD player playing a CD that approaches very good, let alone great, CD playback. I am suspicious of the cheaper multi-format players out there. I have my doubts that they will be able to replay anything at a level above mediocre - whether SACD, DVD-A or CD.
One of the replies: If the market for record players is growing more than the market for SACD/DVD-A, I would be very surprised. In my metro area, I can find vinyl just about anywhere -- and the vinyl dealers all carry turntables. Granted, these aren't for the most part new units, so they are hard to track with sales projections compared to SACD/DVD-A. I know of no one under the age of 30 who lusts for a hi-rez playback unit. The vinyl dealers have enthusiasm for their product, and awesome availabilty of software. Compare that with your typical hi-rez retailer, who has limited selection (hardware or software or both) and little product knowledge. Personally, I'll get into a turntable before getting a universal hi-rez player. I understand the arguments for convenience of use when it comes to hi-rez, but I'm not too enthused about giving the record companies yet another round of $$$ for a re-released catalog.
I also know personally PLENTY of vinyl HATERS who have sworn to me they will NEVER come near anything called SACD or DVD-A. To each its own.
I sympathize completely with your reluctance to give the record companies more money for the same old music. On the other hand, when the first SACD stereo mix of Blonde on Blonde sounds as wonderful as it does, I'm frustrated it took so long to get it right, but elated that getting it right finally happened. Given all the politics, carelessness, misguided mastering philosophies, and just plain ignorance (factors at work in the vinyl world, too), it's often a matter of luck and time no matter what the format. Back to high-rez per se: my experience of vinyl vs. high-rez availability in Fredericksburg, Virginia is pretty much the reverse of yours. Locally, Best Buy, Circuit City, and Borders stock high-rez. Best Buy has about half of a long rack taken up with high-rez now, roughly two-thirds of which are SACDs. Their stock has just about tripled in the last year. To get new vinyl, though, you have to go to one indie shop downtown, where there are about two bins full. There's another three bins or so of good used vinyl. You can also find used vinyl in some local antique shops. Bottom line, though, is that it's much, much easier here to find a large variety of classic and new recordings in high-rez than it is to find any kind of vinyl. I agree that SACD and DVD-A are still tiny niche products, but the growth I see looks pretty robust so far.
Here's a news update on the health of Hi-rez: http://www.stereophile.com/shownews.cgi?1703 It looks pretty good by 2015 I find interesting the fact that this year thru May, 150K DVD-A players were sold vs. only 100K SACD players. Hummmm....maybe that is why we are seeing a bunch more DVD-A titles being announced.
From Stereophile.com: According to CEA market research, manufacturers shipped 148,000 DVD-A and 100,000 SACD players to retailers through May of this year. Well, I think that is WRONG to say so. If these players was ONLY SACD or ONLY DVD-A and not something that are WITH the standard CD playback, I would think you could take away 90% of that sale figures!
"I find interesting the fact that this year thru May, 150K DVD-A players were sold vs. only 100K SACD players. Hummmm....maybe that is why we are seeing a bunch more DVD-A titles being announced." I would temper your enthusiasm Ben. My friends at Chesky tell me they are selling boatloads of SACDs but very few DVDAs. Most DVDAs sell in the thousands of units, but several SACDs have sold in the tens and hundreds of thousands. Guess which is better for an executive at a record label?
Do you have access to actual sales data for either format? If so, could you please be more specific? I'd hate to miss any of those big sellers! FFF ------------ Mike Patrick
To tell you the truth I'm not enthusiastic about either format. But (software wise) I believe SACD is at this moment way ahead of DVD-A. Exactly what is going to happen is up in the air.
A recent Stereophile article suggests that vinyl this year so far outsold both formats - DVD-A & SACD - combined by a wide nearly 3-1 margin. And if I remember correctly, vinyl sales amounted to roughly 700,000. Josh
I like vinyl too, but that Stereophile article suggests that the vinyl sales aren't just about hi-rez sound. They're about nostalgia, graphic design, souvenir-hunting, cultural history, etc. Oh, and "to ensure the monetary value of vinyl records," according to the Vinyl Record Day's mission statement at http://www.vinylrecordday.org/mission.html. Nothing wrong with those things, of course, but these days interest in vinyl doesn't translate to audiophilia in every case. So I'm not sure those vinyl stats mean that everyone's decided vinyl LPs are the only way to go for pure, perfect sound forever.
We also seem to forget that vinyl has been around for an awful long time......hi rez has not, and thanks to the piddly efforts of the record companies, has not been pushed very well.
FabFourFan asked for sales data for either format. And LeeS had the belief based on a source that several SACD titles were selling in the tens and hundreds of thousands. Based on those sales figures, it appears likely not to be the case. Josh
I have read that a typical SACD pressing run is 10,000 discs. Groove Note have reported on AA that one of their titles (a Jacintha disc) has had two repressings, and has almost sold out again. That could mean close to 30,000 SACDs. And although this is a hybrid, it's my opinion that this expensive SACD has been purchased in the main for its high resolution layer. We do know that the total sales of the 22 The Rolling Stones hybrids exceeded 2 million, though there is every reason to suspect that many of these have never seen the insides of an SACD player. Regards, Geoff
