Transitioning from Vintage to Modern (speakers)

There was an ad on audiogon a while back for a full surround set with Era D4/D5/and the center speaker in rosewood for $750. Would be a nice deal for someone that wanted the full set, looks like it's still there ...

Era Design D5 , D4, 5LCR Rosewood Peachtree | Monitors | Council Bluffs, Iowa 51503 | Audiogon

 

I saw that same combination listed on eBay, a few days back, I don't see it anymore.

It is a terrific deal for a HT set-up in a room of modest size. I have a rosewood center channel D5 and a pair of D4's in rosewood.

I would buy this combination myself but I have already slated one item that I'm purchasing a week over the next three weeks.

 

There are very few well designed modern speakers that sound sterile, to me.
I suppose if you compared them directly to an older warmer design you may at first think there sterile sounding. But listen for a few weeks and you might appreciate the natural detail and neutrally that newer designs have to offer.
I won'y try and direct you to a specific speaker as I haven't listened to many in your price range recently.

 

I am afraid that one has to be wary about finding sterile sounding speakers (with bloated bass) especially in the quoted price range. More expensive speakers will generally be more balanced, i.e. less smiley face EQ and more body to the sound. At least that has been my experience.

 

True dat

Why can't people appreciate the proper form factor for speakers?



The problem with "modern" is that over the last 20 years, almost everything has been conglomerate acquired and outsourced to China, and any area for cost cutting is taken advantage of. American 1" MDF is now bamboo and agathis pressboard. Drivers are basically inferior copies of domestic originals, and the product line dumbed down, whether it be Celestion, MB Quart, JBL, or Polk.

Lack of appreciative consumers doesn't help. Now it's either big box store garbage or $10000 silver voice coil hemp speakers, nothing for the everyman audio enthusiast. 1998 reasonable recommendations like Boston Acoustics or Paradigm have gone respectively "sold out" or "esoteric".

Maybe Klipsch would be a holdout recommendation, charging an inflation adjusted price for their heritage speakers (while still making ends meet with Chinese sound bars).

PS, see here for an impressive modern DIY with an 80's rack system footprint.

 

As a loudspeaker engineer I have to strongly disagree with this, especially if I tweak your phrasing to include 1970s speakers which seem to be what folks think of most when they think of vintage speakers. Measurement and simulation technology have become much more widely and affordably available, enabling a lot more virtual improvement before real prototypes. Materials science also advanced.

This I'll applaud as gospel truth. And my feeling is small-driver, inefficient speakers just miss some kind of liveliness, vaguely how a 128k MP3 just sounds like it's missing something. Normal sized speakers can now sound more flat and accurate than old ones...IF that's what the designer's tastes are. Also, you have to compare speakers across inflation-adjusted prices: you can get what reviewers say is a nice sounding speaker, with an Air Motion Tweeter no less, for $50 a pair! (Parts Express). That was definitely impossible back in the day.

 

??? which model??? I looked for that out of curiosity and didn't find it.

 

Sorry model is Kef K 160
Top of the K series.
Its efficient also.

 

OK, so old speakers are not automatically bad. They DO tend to have a different sound, due to
- Different materials (especially cone tweeters as opposed to the domes more common today)
- Different cabinet design (big cabinets with big woofers)
- Far less sophisticated crossovers due to a lack of simulation and measurement technology.
- Likely less linear cone motion due to lack of soft-parts and magnetic simulation technology.

To very roughly paraphrase @G B Kuipers, small speakers=small sound. So I absolute forbid you to buy modern bookshelf speaker, under penalty of having your audiophile enjoyment card revoked. I'm familiar with the sound of speakers of that vintage* and you need to change to towers to keep a larger size cabinet like you have now. I don't care how much anyone chimes in to say how wonderful the bass is on their bookshelves; without disagreeing I will say I think you will be disappointed in not just the quantity but the character of bass. One possible exception could be 6" ELACs, at a penalty of being power hungry. Yet the maximum output of those woofers, even with modern technology, will still probably be short of your current 12" woofers. Even with improved linearity in a newer speaker you need at least twin 6" woofers. I suspect you might like the sound character of these*
ELAC Debut F6 which are within your $1000 budget and I feel have a sound balance similar to yours, though again the character of the sound will differ. On a big sale now are these triple-6" Polks again within your budget Polk Audio RTi A9 (Cherry) .

Whatever you get, please don't assign any importance to immediate A/B impressions. Any new thing you get, to be fair, you have to allow a significant amount of time for your ear/brain system to recalibrate. ALL speakers are HORRIBLY inaccurate, it is just a fact, so you have to get used to new speakers and give them a fair chance to shine.

Speakers do tend to be better as you spend more money, and they last decades. So you could also save up and get something like the lovely Monitor Audio Silver 300 Loudspeaker (each) which sounded fabulous with all kinds of music, even metal, no lack of bass! (But there is a twin-8" Silver 500 if you want some insurance heh heh). In that case, you could do what I did with my best friend's husbands vintage speakers (of a similar construction to yours). I put cross-bracing in the cabinets, coated the inside with auto body undercoat, and stuffed with about 1.5 pounds of fiberglass per cubic foot. They sounded SO shockingly better, she called to tell me "he's pulling out all his old albums and listening to them again!" Now 15 years later he still has not gotten new speakers.

*There is a newer and presumably better sounding version ELAC Debut 2.0 F6.2 but I have not heard it myself to comment about the sound versus vintage models

**There are better coating materials, and the stuffing is for sealed speakers. Ported speakers go ahead and stuff densely but not anywhere near the inside port opening. The stuffing will lower the port tuning a bit however that is usually a good thing.

 

Ah. Yes, I can imagine it would have a quite different character

 

For the OP:

I had the same issue some years ago. I love the sound of Vintage speakers, but I also wanted the benefit of more modern computer design.

The solution was in the Tannoy Saturn Floor Standers. They sound absolutely great with the music I play, which is generally 50s and 60s rock with some orchestral stuff slipped in there as well. They are fed from a 1960 EICO ST-40, running 20 watts a channel.

You may wish to try and find a pair, as I think they are one of the true bargains in speaker audio.

 

What vintage speakers were you using at first?

 

These really look great—nice and beefy by all appearances. I wish I could hear them with my vinyl rig.

 

Good point. You most likely won't find too many well designed speakers in his price range but there ARE a few gems to be had.

 

Lit, was using a pair of the original advents with a SS amp (Denon). Did NOT like the sound of that setup. The advents were everything I DIDNT want.
Could not be happier with the Saturns...they have a vintage sound, but modern engineering and can be used swimmingly with any kind of music.

 

They are great. I must say that they would sound even better with a bit more power, like 25 or 30 WPC. But they do a fine job with the 20 wpc of the EICO.

 

I'll never forget, about 10 years ago, a stereo store in LI had a pair of 1950s Bozaks in HUGE cabinets. They were having a slow day, so the salesman let me sit down and hear them. I looked through their albums, and found a VA album with 'The Gypsy Cried" by Lou Christie, a song I knew very well.

Man, I'll never forget it.....I never heard sound like that in my LIFE!! I mean, Lou Christie was right there in the listening room with me. If I had the room (I dont but maybe when I retire and move) I'd have a pair of those Bozaks with restored crossovers.

 

Two pages before I said the B&W 704 s2 were lifeless, sterile and so. I still think they are.

However, I've been trying the more expensive 702 s2 and they're much better. Still detailed but also smooth, warm, and colorful. I'm very excited by these speakers.

I thought it was a matter of vintage vs modern but I was wrong. Modern speakers can sound very "juicyly" delightful with all the other benefits of modern design altogether, you just need to do a research and find something that matches your system, your room and your tastes, it might easily please your ears.

 

You want to have a fairly large room for the RTiA9's, otherwise you will be overloaded with bass. My room is about 450 Sq. Ft. and worked well for the A9's.

This is when they arrived, and are still in their shipping cartons.



Here is one out of the box, with the grill cover off, showing the driver's.

These things are quite large and they are 19" deep.

I've used them both for Stereo and HT and the sound good, have real cherry wood veneers (that even there flagship LSiM707's do not have).



In a more normal size room, you might be better off with the model just below these, the RTiA7.

The RTiA9's retail for $750/ea. and are on sale for $450/ea.

The slightly smaller RTiA7's retail for $500/ea. and are on sale for $300/ea.

These are a lot of speaker for that little money, and they are real wood veneers, which you don't usually see being offered at these low price points.

And, they are nice sounding, dynamic and decently constructed speakers.

 

So, they would work with my vintage 85 watt Pioneer monster receiver?

 

Eighty five Watts is plenty of power that should be able to play most any speaker.

 

Probably your Pioneer has as roughly about much power as any current receiver. What model is it?
By the way, if you refurb your existing speakers, it wouldn't hurt to change the capacitors. Get the same size, but obviously newer, and some kind of higher quality (not electrolytic, but no need to spend insane amounts of money either).

 

How about Wharfedale 225s. Somewhat vintage sounding but with modern speaker clarity. These are not sterile sounding and enough funds are left over for speaker stands.

 

I cant see why not. They should sound fabulous with all that power.

 

You can talk fancy about any speaker make you'd like but this right here holds true