Tube amplifiers: distortion & coloration or transparency & realism?

Hi peeps,

Got into a discussion regarding differences between valve and solid state amplifiers this past week and wondered how others felt about phrasing when it came to describing amps?
When it comes to valve amplifiers, IMHO, I find them to be more timbrally accurate than solid state.
Instruments and voices sound real, as opposed to more of an approximation with solid state.
Is that realism, that tonal and timbral accuracy I'm hearing the tubes colouring the midrange, or is it transparency?
Do valves reveal a more true, lifelike sound that transistors seem unable to translate the same way?
If an oboe or a violin or a bass guitar or a voice sounds more like it does in real life - live - to me when I'm listening to a valve amplifier, is it distortion & coloration I'm hearing or transparency & realism?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Cheers,

-R

 

You answered your own question! You're hearing realism.
Who cares about distortion and whatever - leave that to the techie nerds who hear with their eyes over their ears.

Incidentally I prefer solid state over tubes when it comes to most (not all) music recorded from the end of the 70's onward.

 

Oh boy, you should get some interesting comments from both camps I'm sure. In a straight-up shoot out between class A single-ended tube vs SS we did here years ago, the 2A3 amp won. As far as transparency & realism, distortion & coloration, both amps were very close, the tube amp just allowed you the "see" into the music, with a more realistic "image" of the recording venue (a church). Or course, this is only one example.

jeff

 

I think the discussion's nut was because I kept using "transparency" to describe "realism" in valves, when the common viewpoint seems to favour coloration in describing valves compared to solid state.

 

Yes, I would strongly agree that valves offer more spatial-depth information to recordings than solid state.

 

Well if nothing else there should be the usual "you're not really hearing what you think you are" posts.

 

But IF what you hear through tubes is closest to what you hear live, then where is the coloration? Coloration would imply adding or subtracting from the "real thing." In that respect, it would be the solid state gear that are colored if that gear does not reproduce the "real thing" as closely as possible.

 

Yes, I took offence to those assertions in my previous discussions. Everybody's different though.
I guess I started the thread to see who, if any, shared my view in the usage of "transparency" in describing the valve sound.

 

No doubt, a topic for the ages of audiophilia.

Chief McIntosh amplifier engineer Sidney Corderman, when asked what sounds better tubes or SS - after a pause said, "If they are designed properly, they should sound the same!"

Getting back to the OP's question of what sounds "better" or "less colored" or whatever - I suppose it depends on which specific tube amplifier and which specific SS amplifier we are comparing. There have been good and no-so-good in both versions.

It should also be noted that coloration and distortion are not always bad things. Indeed, even order harmonics often enhance the listening experience, which I believe is where some of the preference for tube equipment is based.

 

Yes, that's my thought, that solid state is actually not as transparent as valves to my ears... probably not a popular viewpoint.

 

There are okay valve amps, good ones, and great ones.

The great ones sound scary real. Everything you described.

 

I follow what you are saying. I've had tube amps in the past that kind of whiffed with music from the 70's onward. Those amps couldn't do the bass very well.

However, a really good tube amp makes those same recordings sound excellent, with plenty of bass slam, punch and extension. One of several keys is a robust power supply.

 

Agreed. Great valve amplifiers sound spooky they are so good. Terry at Soundhounds calls this "way past the goosebumps."

 

Transparency is not really the term I would use to differentiate tubes vs SS. The way each one distorts the signal to me rather explains the sonic differences. This is why Class A sounds better in both tubes and SS. I have a tube amp which I can put into triode or ultralinear mode. The latter sounds almost like (good) SS. The problem with amplifiers today is that they have to drive very difficult speakers. Thus Class A amps whether tube or SS tend to do noticeably worse driving woofers than Class AB, other things being equal.

 

That's usually just a function of damping factor.

jeff

 

I think it depends on which tube amps and which solid state amps.

 

Sound playback is a complex series of constructions & deconstructions anyway. Different stylus shapes could be said to 'color' (change) the signal.

 

Anything that has been amplified has been colored imho. The only music that has no coloration is live unamplified acoustic performances, then the environment colors the sound.

It's all what you like, per your ears/brain, which is an individual taste.

 

Now listening to Carmina Burana (DG 139 362) and the women in the chorus sound as if they are coming out of the floor. Tweeter dispersion? CIFTEs? IDK

 

This is so refreshing to see on forum discussions.

 

I view transparency as neutrality. Coming as close to the source as possible. In recorded playback, that would be whatever recording is being played. A lot of listeners don't like neutral, or what approaches neutral. Some amp/speaker combinations may transform the source material in a way that is ideal to the listener but may not be true to the source. This isn't a bad thing, but not how I would view transparency.

 

I agree that some may not like neutral (or transparent in my case!), but with the caveat that it usually means the source was not well recorded.
A transparent system can often lead to many LPs getting moved on...

 

Sometimes. Some systems/components can transform less that stellar recordings. Some play them as they are and the listener may want more of something out of the recording regardless...more soundstage, more air, more bass, sweeter kids, etc...

Some people listen to certain recordings because they enjoy them and don't get caught up with faults in the source.

 

Totally speaker dependant. Might sound worse, better or the same.


But best trasparency imo is active monitors nearfield or headphones.