Tube Rolling Question...softer and warmer

I was told that replacing my JJ tubes in my Rogue Audio Pharaoh with Mullards would produce a softer and warmer sound.

I understand "warmer", but could some of you with experience in tube rolling please describe to me your understanding of "softer"?

Gracias!!

 

Old school Conrad Johnson components, for example a PV5. Mullard CV4004 tubes, Vandersteen speakers 2C, 2CI, 3A, 3A signatures. IMHO components that get the midrange right or natural as in what I like.


M~

 

It ain't necessarily so. JJ are the warmest of current production tubes and many vintage tubes will be brighter. If you have a well used set, then they may be warmer. My suggestion is to enjoy putting more hours on your amp and tube set. The Pharaoh isn't designed to be the warmest sounding amp. It is very accurate.
-Bill

 

Thanks, Bill. I appreciate the advice, and I am just a curious novice trying to obtain the best sound I can.

Can you relay your opinion of the "softer" description, please? My assumption was relative to higher frequency harshness. It is hardly harsh as it stands, so I wanted to verify.

 

there are some tubes that can produced very clean and "hard" sonic lines. eg the Tungsol for my ears.
a "softer" sound would be a sound with more "rounded off edges" if i may say. the Mullard does this for my ears.

 

I can't speak for Mullards, but when I owned a Pharoah, I swapped the JJs for some NOS Brimar tubes and the difference was almost indistinguishable, definitely wasn't worth the trouble.

However, I recall a quite noticeable difference when I swapped the same tubes in a Rogue Sphinx. In that amp, the tubes seemed to tame some brightness, but that might have been expectation bias on my part.

As Bill mentioned, the Pharoah is a very accurate amp (imo, somewhat clinical). It would take a dramatic difference to make it sound warm.

 

The amount of difference tube rolling makes to sound depends on the circuit. In an amp like the Pharaoh I think the differences will be very, very subtle unless your current tubes are shot. Now longevity is a different matter. A nice pair of NOS tubes will last way, way longer.

 

I have the Cronos Magnum by Rogue. I rolled the center 12AU7 with a NOS Mullard 4003 from Upscale Audio. It improved my soundstage and gave me more detail in the highs and more defined bass. I too am a novice. I can tell you what a warm sound is but I can't tell what a rolled off high or a soft whatever rounded edge is. Warm sound has to do with the harmonics a tube sound produces over a solid state. The tubes offer a distortion that is more pleasant to the human ear, hence a "warmer" sound.

Aside from warmth, what I do know is that with the Mullard tube roll, cymbals sound like they are less distorted and more like what it sounded like when my brother, a drummer played them. The sound of the stick hitting the cymbal and then the "clink" on the high hat. Not a undistinctive crashing sound.( best I can describe it...listen to the high hats in Led Zeppelin's "Ramble On" in your car v. in your home system and that's the difference! That test is really a difference maker! I brought that cd when I auditioned my speakers).

The Mullard midrange had no discernible difference to me but piano notes sounded more like they do live. First the Hammer hitting string then the clarity of the individual notes. The bass was nice, I do not use a subwoofer and my speakers are KEF LS50 so they sound great with my Cronos Magnum and VPI Prime Scout with an Ortofon 2M Black.

That 12AU7 center tube is the one tube I rolled so far. The guys at Rogue suggested that particular tube location has the most direct impact on sound. I noticed a difference in familiar music definition and clarity. Other than that, the human ear cannot "remember" sound differences after less than a minute so we could not tell tube differences by switching tubes unless we are listening to very familiar music and then we may hear a difference.

My reference music on the classical side is Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue. I know that piece extremely well and listen for differences in the clarinet opening and the piano solos. I listen for clarity without distortion (You will know distortion when you hear it..it hurts to listen or see above reference to Ramble On) I also listen for distinctive piano notes...that means being able to seperate the notes played rather than hearing them seem to mesh together.(think slurred speech v. clear enunciation) I then listen to the space separating the various instruments. That is whether can you picture the seperate orchestral positions in your soundstage.

Being that I am not an expert audiophile these differences and listening observations are what make listening enjoyable to me. If it sounds good with Gershwin, then it sounds good with all my other music. Best of luck rolling your tubes...
Steve

 

Our systems are very similar. I started using nordost sort kones on my Sphynx v2 and it really helped the bass tightness and gravity of the bass, so I did not try the Pharaoh without them when I switched, but I can hear what you describe now in drums and also felt like I went from hearing bass, to hearing A BASS. I am extremely happy so far.

 

Rubico I run a Pharaoh with 4003 mullards . I like those tubes very much. SPSEQ response to sound is spot on to my hearing. I was trying RCA 12AU7s from the 1950s With excellent results untill noise arose in those tubes for some unknown reason making them useless to me . Just for reference I use VPI Prime Scout /Dynavector 20x2Cart /Manley Chinook Phono Amp/B&W CM10

 

Great! Listening to one's music is a personal experience and like a fine instrument, our systems need to be fine tuned. The tuning changes are, for the most part, subtle but once dialed in...they sound great in your room with your ears...I love my system now as it is. I don't think I need to spend more on equipment which means all my allocated music funds are for actual albums...enjoy your music!
Steve

 

U are truly in a blessed position, it took me many years and lots of funds and losing lots along the way buying n selling gears,
trying to find a setup that i can truly called "Arrived". but i feel i m almost there now..... but danger lurks just yonder....
there is always a better mouse trap out there... hahahahaha......

the technician who helped me assembled my Philips Pro2 transport told me, "old man....... learnt to be content with what you have
and just enjoy the music".... sigh......easy for him to say.... he was the guy who bought a $5k cartridge and put in on a Technics turntable,
he said, put your money where it matters..... well.... each of us have our own poison.....

 

High frequency extension does not equal harshness. The Pharaoh has very good HFE but it also sounds smooth, just not rolled-off on top. The harshness you sometimes hear is either coming from the source component or it is in the recording itself. Some recordings are far better than others as the studio used the best mics and post recording equipment such as mixers to achieve the final sound. Others can reflect the poor choices of the equipment used in production by displaying their harsh distortion characteristics. Since the Pharaoh is a very transparent sounding amp, having little sound of its own but being very capable of reproducing every detail of the source, it will not mask any flaws in front of it. It will amplify whatever signal is injected into it without coloration. So great recordings will sound great but lesser ones, not so much. You can also evaluate your speakers by understanding that they have the largest influence on the coloration of your system by having the largest amount of distortion. They also interact in a very dynamic way with the amplifier, so that synergy is nearly as important as the signal at the front of the system.
-Bill

 

Thanks for the input. Can you tell me your impressions of the chinook vs the Pharaoh phono stage? That I would love to hear!

 

Thank you. I am digesting every word and appreciate you taking the time to reply.

 

Rubico I had a audio meltdown Ill get back on that ASAP

 

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