Tube rolling the DECWARE Zen Tori (Integrated amplifier)*

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Thanks for weighing in gentlemen.

We love our Toriis! With good reason!

 

No worries. Just pointing it out.

 

Understood, and it's a fair point. Right now, if you want to hear one or try it out, it's a long wait or a trip to Peoria. One of the things that has been discussed in the Decware forums is the possibility of a user demo network, in which folks could arrange to listen to Decware equipment in homes of owners. Might help, though still a stopgap at best.

 

Jeff, any impressions or updates from your tube rolling?

 

I've only swapped the EL34's for the Shugyuangs and back again. But this is an amazing amplifier for the money. Honestly I don't know how the Decware guys can make any money selling an amp this good for $2500. But they do run a tight ship, aren't bogged down with warranty repairs and aren't supporting a dealer network.

I'd say for a medium power tube amp, it has to be one of the best buys out there. Much like a McIntosh MC275, this is an amp you can probably hand down to your kids!

 

Yes it is a nice amp! Can you give thoughts on comparing the Shugyuangs to the stock EL34s.....Mine has Winged Cs, is that what ships with the amp now?

 

Thanks for weighing in with a bit of info TONEPUB.

Listening to my amazing Torii right now. Tuesday I get a set of the ERR Speakers in; eager to hear how they compare to their sister speakers made by Bob Zeigler. When I bought them they were called the Decware IT Radials; now they're Turning Point Audio HR-1s. These speakers LOVE the Zen, it's like a happy marriage.

 

TONEPUB, I am waiting on two Toriis with V-caps right now, and I am almost set on ordering two sets of Shuguang Treasures for them.

Scrubjay, I think SED Winged C is what used to ship with the amp, but no longer. According to this page, the JJ EL34 has replaced the SED.

 

I like the look of their amps. Someone post some of their pictures

 

PaleRider, "JJ EL34 has replaced the SED" Thanks, I have not heard that tube.

Nor have I heard the Treasures. Have you heard them or found comparatives? Grant Fidelity sells factory tested quads for $280, but seems to be very serious about grading them themselves and they run from $200 for less than 60% emission to $390 the 80%+ quads. Quite a range for the the same tube!

I guess I would be tempted to get a higher grade tube if I was shopping, but then going for tubes that are 3-4 times some pretty nice modern EL34s...

I am listening to some Cryo'd Rubys EL34BHT http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/prod...d=291&osCsid=50e930c6ed9ebe3ed5bc0158eeeb7a60

And they sound surprisingly real and only for $80. Big, open and natural sounding.....I don't know. Since I like to change tubes to shake things up, I would really like some information on the actual attributes of the Treasures sound and durability.

Any tips?

 

I am not a photographer. Hopefully one of the other Torii Mk III owners here can contribute.

 

I used JJ EL34 tubes in my Integrated, to good effect. To me they were closer to the Tungsol reissues sound than the Winged C.

I think when I got the Torii it had Svetlana tubes in it. I replaced these with Winged C.

 

This is an integrated amp or an amp ?

 

It's an integrated amp. But. . . severai of us use it with the Decware CSP2 preamp or the ZSTAGE line stage, it can really respond to the right preamplification. Gives you more ways to "tune."

 

As Lon says, I suppose it is technically an integrated amp, in the sense that it has treble and bass trim controls, a master gain control, and two sets of inputs. Decware doesn't bill it that way, specifically referring to one of their other models as an integrated amp, but all others as amplifiers. OTOH, every one of their amps is generally able to operate without a preamp, and usually has some feature, e.g., a gain control, that is like an integrated amp. But a preamp, or one of their gain stages, can really open up the amps.

 

Thanks for the rec on the cryo'ed Ruby tubes. I have not heard the Shuguangs myself, but Jeff's reference to them, another Torii owner's glowing endorsement, and the reviews I have read were enough to convince me. I ordered two quads of the 80% grade today from Grant. This is just me going a little crazy, because my experience with how Steve Deckert voices his amps suggests that stock is more than adequate as a starting point.

 

Pictures would be amazing. I've only ever the stock photo's.

 

Thanks to all for the explanation. I have not seen any picture that shows any extra inputs, gain control etc..., that is why I ask. But it appears that most use it as an amp, and a pre by somebody. Just about any pre would work with it ?

 

You're going to want to use it with a really good preamp. The Torii is going to show you exactly what is going on in that preamp.

Adding a pre-amp also allows more sources to be used. With my two input preamp I can use the Torii Mk III with three sources.

I use the Decware CSP2 because one can adjust the output from the preamps for each channel separately to up to 5V. It's amazing what that can do to the weight of the sound, etc. The tonal balance and dynamics of the CSP2 are the best of any preamp I've used.

 

I get the excitement! And after your post I got off my lazy butt and searched a bit and the few comparisons I saw surely made the tube sound good. I have not looked at them since they first came out, mainly because I was resistant about paying that much for new tubes. But I should have....it sounds like they will be great, the I look forward to your thoughts once you get set up. Man, you are in for some fun!

 

No question they aren't cheap, though at a little over $95 apiece, they aren't insane. In quads, they do add up. With two Toriis and a more modest 84ZS on the way, I will have some grand valve voluptuousness on my hands.

 

scrubjay, this review of the Shuguang CV181Z, though not the 6CA7-Z I just ordered, is definitely on the entertaining side.

 

Thanks PaleRider. Enjoyable indeed, and impressive comparisons!

 

High praise indeed for the Torii in this thread. I am becoming very interested! Come to think of it, pretty much universally there is high praise for all things Decware. They must be doing something right.