Turntable budget decision making tree

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by offbyone, May 23, 2018.

  1. raye_penber

    raye_penber Active Member

    Location:
    UK
    I think it could well be down to one if not more of the above. I'm in the UK right now, and most of the people that I'm aware of with hum issues on the Project tables tend be in the US. I suspect it could be power related...
     
    willboy likes this.
  2. A U-turn Orbit is a cheap-o, under engineered turntable. They have had problems with correct speed and it is lacking some of the standard features that some of the cheapest turntables come with as standard, like a cue-lift and adjustable anti-skate. You are too late, but up until a few days ago you could have bought the Project Rolling Stone turntable for $249. from Soundstage Direct. Maybe they still have some left.
     
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  3. willboy

    willboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wales, UK
    I know very little about electronics, but could it be something to do with the UK having 3 pin plugs/sockets that includes ground wiring, while the US two pin plug/socket system does not? I believe that much of Europe's mains electricity also lacks grounding.
     
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  4. raye_penber

    raye_penber Active Member

    Location:
    UK
    That could very well be the case -- the grounding issue. I'm sure there's a way around it, too, for those in the US/Canada, as I do recall a couple of people posting up solutions a couple of years ago.

    I will qualify my initial post with this: since I bought my setup in 2014 (Project Debut Carbon Esprit) I haven't had one single problem with it. It was literally plug in and play.
     
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  5. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    If you can't afford $1000 consider the Pioneer PLX 1000 ($700). I'm not happy about the fixed bias arms Rega now put on the P1 and P2. You should be all right with a P1 provided you don't get earthing issues and stick to the provided cartridge or one with same tracking weight. Nobody on here has had much to complain about with the Pioneer while there are lots of Rega 'problems'.
     
    displayname likes this.
  6. juno6000

    juno6000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    I would recommend buying used from a reputable dealer such as www.soundsclassic.com
    The stuff is gone through and is up to spec and comes with a warranty. Your dollar will buy more than it will with a new low end deck. There is an MCS turntable on there that was the JC Penny house brand. Made by Pioneer, most likely. Not that I am recommending that table...just an example. Sometimes vinyl nirvana has some lower priced Thorens decks as well. Their inventory changes frequently, so watch the site weekly if that kind of stuff floats your boat. I have bought several items from them in the past, including a mint Sansui SR-838 turntable. They definitely know how to pack turntables. I had a tricked out Pro-ject Debut III that I sold after I bought a Sansui SR-636 it was that much better. I have been down the same road you are are and that is my best advice. At any rate, I do not recommend the entry level Rega. AT ALL! Warning warning! Avoid!
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
    displayname likes this.
  7. Apesbrain

    Apesbrain Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    Then you don't need a phono pre-amp as the receiver will accept the direct output of the turntable. Here are many of the options mentioned above: Price 0 - 500

    If you're not comfortable installing and aligning the cartridge, they can do it for you.
     
    displayname likes this.
  8. displayname

    displayname Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas
    There are so many factors at play here. One is the system/environment the TT is going into. The other is manufacturing tolerances. Just because it's the same parts doesn't mean that each one is exactly the same. A turntable is a precision machine with moving parts, and a lot of things that can be just slightly off causing an issue.
     
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  9. llama

    llama Well-Known Member

    Would you like to qualify this statement? I am especially intrigued by the speed comment.
     
  10. SJP

    SJP Forum Resident

    Location:
    Anaheim
    No, you are not too late...

    Rolling Stones - Pro-ject Turntable $249 @ soundstage direct

    The link to this turntable is within the thread above. Mine arrived a few days ago and I am thrilled with the upgrade over my entry level Sony. I would still like to upgrade my preamp from the super-basic one that I bought at Fry's a few years ago when I got the Sony up and running.

    Might I have been thrilled spending more? Probably, but I wasn't willing to do so at this time. Sounds as if this superior Pro-Ject deal could allow you to invest in a better preamp AND turntable all at once. If this is the direction you take, I'll be most curious to hear your thoughts on the preamp you choose. Good luck!
     
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  11. nosliw

    nosliw Azunyan! にゃーーー!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Now that is a decent upgrade from a Sony player. The price for the Pro-Ject Rolling Stones turntable is actually very decent!
     
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  12. juno6000

    juno6000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    Isn't that an Essential model? That is a lower end model than the debut, correct?
     
  13. nosliw

    nosliw Azunyan! にゃーーー!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    It doesn't use the external motor with the exposed belt from the Essential model but the tonearm is the same as the Essential. It looks more of the Debut non-Carbon variant than anything really.
     
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  14. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    Even if you can afford $1000, consider the Pioneer PLX-1000. It seems to be competitive with any $1000 deck and you'll have $300 for a good phono stage or to add more records to your collection.
     
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  15. Michael Rose

    Michael Rose Forum Resident

    Location:
    Davie,Fl
    I agree with your sentiment about taking extra time to save money for a higher end product. That said, I own an lp120, Ignorance is bliss and I mean that in the most positive, money saving way possible. I have to remind myself of the my financial situation (not good) then my listening room (it's my living room, shared by wife and kids). So with those two major points along with several smaller issues, makes me NEED to be content with my current set up and be ecstatic when I could sneak in some upgrades along the way.
     
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  16. rfs

    rfs Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Lansing, MI USA
    When my Technics SL-B200 died I bought a SL-QD33 for less than $100 including shipping on the auction site. All I had to do was swap in the cartridge (an old AT2002) and dustcover from the B200 and I was in business. The B200 was a semi-automatic belt drive, the QD33 is a fully automatic direct drive quartz lock. Both use P-mount cartridges. Recently I splurged and bought an NOS AT450 on the auction site for $60. This is a great upgrade, so much so that I bought a second one to have as a spare.
     
  17. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    It seems to be a Debut III.
     
  18. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    Cross the Debut Carbon off the list and replace with the (Pro-Ject manufactured) Music Hall 2.2.

    Music Hall - MMF-2.2 Turntable | Shop Music Direct

    Uturn's Pluto would make a fine budget preamp.

    And if you don't have something like a Spin Clean record cleaning machine, grab one asap and find out what's actually in those grooves. (I'd get that first, with a cheap phono preamp, and upgrade the preamp when possible.)
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  19. Michael Rose

    Michael Rose Forum Resident

    Location:
    Davie,Fl
  20. The U-turn Orbit has been discussed in many different threads. The speed issue is well-known. As for the cheap-o quality and under engineering, as well as the lack of features, all you have to do is look at it. The speed isn't even adjustable, as far as pitch control. Not all records were cut at the correct speed themselves. I wouldn't buy a turntable without a pitch adjustment nor without adjustable anti-skate. As with many similar turntables, the U-turn looks like it was thrown together in someone's garage, as cheaply as possible.
     
  21. malco49

    malco49 Forum Resident

    i have. 2004 or so project debut w/ upgrades. if i was going to buy a new TT for $500 i would go for the high end U-turn. no reason just because they are new. my amp has a built in phono stage so i am covered with that. i would also say the pro-ject would be a fine table.
     
  22. llama

    llama Well-Known Member

    Have you actually seen, handled, listened to one?

    In relation to speed issues in general, as it pertains to belt drives. I wonder how many people when setting up their turntable understand that finger grease, even the tiniest bit, on the belt or platter or pulley will 100% effect speed stability. I wonder how many folks wipe the sweat from their forehead, grab that belt, platter whatever with both hands and just toss it on there. Then get on the internet and complain about the speed of their new turntable.
     
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  23. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I love these forums, but for many getting started, and/or who are not "dive into the rabbit hole" kind of people, they tend to be as harmful and confusing as they are helpful. I have become pretty knowledgeable about the hobby in the couple years or so that I've been pursuing it.

    I also have no doubt that the Orbit (and other comparable lower-cost turntables) is well engineered, reliable and sounds great. It does not have speed issues, and any issues that develop with them are dealt with aggressively and helpfully by U-Turn customer service.

    It doesn't have to be any more complex than that, and I'm just as happy (relatively speaking) with my Orbit as with my Marantz TT-15. The starting hobbyist who is destined for the rabbit hole can find their way to the edge without being pushed so aggressively by other hobbyists, IMO.

    Just my opinion. YMMV.
     
  24. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    The "speed" issue referenced with the UTurn was pretty much the result of a review (a "survey" type review) in some internet site (Wirecutter?). The Orbit had just been released and the wow and flutter numbers were poor. UTurn figured out that the belts were the cause and promptly sourced better ones. Naturally the "surveyor" did no follow up.

    They've upgraded a few parts over the years. Does Hanpin address the issues with ATs and other brands in such a responsive fashion?
     
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  25. offbyone

    offbyone Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tahoe
    My impression from reading the forum is that even the basic pluto preamp would represent a huge improvement over a built in stock receiver preamp. Is this inaccurate? If I am in the <500 range for a turntable should I bother with a separate preamp?
     
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