Turntable issue..Is it sibliance?

Hi guys

I have a a recurring issue with distortion on my setup. Now, it rears its head on selected LP's and id say i tend to have a problem with possibly around 20 % of the things i buy. I dont know whether it is sibilance or the same kind of issue as sibilance.

What i find happens is that it kind of distorts on the higher frequencies with certain pressings. I bought the recent Dire Straits 'Brothers in Arms' and i have it at the beginning of 'walk of life' on the first percussive part and the ?cymbal sounded really distorted and unnatural. I then did not notice it for the rest of the album so was quite isolated to this particular track. I do get sibilance with some vocals aswell but not that often. Also i am trying to figure out if it is the vinyl or my setup, but the fact that my experience isnt the same for all vinyl makes me confused but it does crop up now and again and it is frustrating!

Is it time for the cart change. I am using a Goldring Eroica which was sold 'as new' on ebay but was not sealed....Its a mistake i wont make again as i cannot be sure of its history for certain if not sealed i guess?! I have a new sealed Denon DL110 which i think i will try soon. Maybe my cart isnt quite aligned enough? As i said, it seems like a similar issue to siblilance and this is the best way i know to describe the issue?

My new recent upgrades come this week with the slightly upgraded arm and HR power supply. Im hoping the power supply might be useful especially as i live in a block of flats but we shall see..

Anyone had similar issues. Is it just bad pressings or is it my system?

Thanks

Rich

 

Dont all answer at once....

 

It sure sounds like it could be any or all of the following issues: worn stylus, cartridge mismatch, inadequate vertical tracking force, or poor alignment.

A cartridge swap is a good starting point. Perhaps a local hifi dealer would be agreeable to evaluating the diamond on the Goldring under a scope?

 

I guess so...the thing is that it could be the vinyl cos ive had many examples where it sounds fantastic. I bought a MFSL album a week ago and that sounds stunning so thats kind of making me think its the vinyl?!

This is the only cartridge i have used so far though so may try the other!

 

I have their recent box set. I'll try that track when I get home but I don't recall any problems. The box set is Greatness!

 

Well, it's been my experience that some cartridges are not able to track every record.

 

"Sibilance" is simply an over-emphasized top end. However, if the problem is "spitting S's" then it's a cartridge issue, caused by the groove pushing the stylus upward. Some carts do better on S's than others. I had a Goldring cart in the past, and it was perfect. I'd first try a slightly heavier tracking weight. If that doesn't work, then my guess would be the stylus is starting to show wear.

 

It rears its head on only certain albums and when things get high or when vocals suddenly come in sometimes. The over emphasised top end seems to be the issue maybe? A lot of things are changing in the next week or so...slightly different and better arm, i will change the cart to a brand new one, new power supply, arm decoupling kit and new support...so i will re-evaluate things then i think. Im not sure if my cart tracks that well or if it is 100% okay so changing that is the priority for me now.

 

This!

About half of new vinyl is cut at a higher than average level and can't be tracked 100% without a very good (preferably line contact) stylus. Some MFSL's are cut a bit quieter, which is probably what helped in that example (post #5).

 

I doubt it's the vinyl, especially if you're getting the same sorts of audible HF distortion on 20% of new albums.

Like Action Pact says it sounds like a tracking problem related to one or some combination of worn stylus, arm/cartridge compliance mismatch, inadequate vertical tracking force, or poor alignment. It's also true that some cartridges just flat don't track as well as others -- differences due to things like stylus shape and cartridge suspension design -- or some set ups with respect to resistance and capacitance loading may result in frequency spikes in the upper octave that might exaggerate certain kinds of sounds, so loading may also be playing a role.

Hard to say from afar which of the above is the problem or which combination of the above is exacerbating the problem with certain HFs. I might start with a new cart that has a reputation of being a good tracker that's a good compliance match with the arm and a good set up with a quality protractor and scale.

 

First, make sure the table is level and get an inexpensive 30x loupe and look closely at the stylus and be sure it is clean. Then, see how the cart/alignment works on a test record like the Hi-Fi News test record. If that sounds good, for example, you don’t have distortion on the third +16db test track, then you are listening to the limitations of the stylus shape, condition of the record and the original recording, which often has some sibilance baked into the production. Pick a particular record that you can get multiple copies of for cheap and listen to see if you have sibilance in the same places across multiple copies. Ultimately, you may like a different stylus shape. That Denon cart may be more forgiving and be more to your liking.

 

Very likely the Gyger tip has lost its fine playing edge through wear, which will cause slurring on strong sibilant sounds.
Try the Denon which has a nice hyper elliptical stylus. It should sound pretty clean on most things.

 

Thanks for the advice, have you used the Denon before or any of their carts? I didn't get any tools in mine and i need to figure out what i need to fix the Denon to my arm. I can see one part is a flat blade screwdriver...is that all i need, or do i need something for the top fixing? Cheers

 

Your stylus is line contact. It takes an insanely long time to wear out. During its expected life span, performance should not tail off. I suggest to estimate its previous use, just to rule out wear. This can be done by inspection under a microscope. It a professional inspection is not practical, or if a microscope is not available, then simply inspect the tip and cantilever under a bright light and a cheap hand held magnifier from a department store. Look for any embedded crud, or any residue on the top side of the cantilever, also where the stylus joins the cantilever. These areas tend to accumulate hard to remove crud with long use. If it's clean, like new, then the stylus is almost certainly fresh.

Sibilance has many causes. Here are just a few, among very many.. be sure the stylus guard is in place before doing these checks ..
Sibilance is the result of mistracking. The stylus momentarily loses contact, or bounces or vibrates against the groove wall. In some cases, the record is sibilant. But I am assuming here, the problem is tracking, not the fault of the records. A dirty groove can cause sibilance as well. The increased friction makes it difficult for the stylus to track highly modulated passages.

1) Test your arm for free floating when balanced, and at zero anti-skate. The arm should not hang up.
2) inspect the cantilever for any static off center, or stylus lean, a torsional misalignment of the stylus that causes azimuth errors.
3) while a record is playing, sometimes channel imbalance will be associated with sibilance, caused by azimuth error, or excessive skating force.
4) check your vertical tracking angle. The arm should be parallel to the record, the cartridge body also parallel. This applies to cartridges with reference surfaces that are supposed to be parallel. Typically the vertical tracking angle can tolerate some error, but significant errors will cause sibilance. For line contact styli, the vertical tracking angle becomes more critical.
5) check the cartridge offset and overhang. Misalignment of the stylus is a leading cause of sibilance.
6) check the vertical tracking force, try adjusting closer to 2 grams. Insufficient tracking force is leading cause of sibilance.
7) check the anti-skating action. The antiskate is typically set to the tracking force. My method is to observe the cantilever as it settles into the groove. There should be no deflection. The cantilever should remain visually centered. If there is any deflection, the stylus alignment will also be off, and your antiskating must be readjusted until the cantilever remains centered. This is best performed near the outer edge of the record, apprx a few mm's into the first track. (incorrect antiskate causes unequal stylus pressure in the groove as well as misalignment of the stylus by deflection of the cantilever)

These are basic tips, aside from my method of checking anti-skate which is the most accurate method IMO. My method takes into consideration the actual dynamic forces taking place as the record is playing.

There is more..

I hope these tips are helpful,
Steve VK

 

One of the guys on here kindly came to my flat with a hifi news test record and it showed up with no issues and actually passed the tests with flying colours seemingly...even on the demanding tracks. Tonight, i bought 4 new LPs and all were fine. Maybe its as little as 1 in 10 records that i have an issue with so i feel it is more likely bad pressings...that is my hunch. Theres a lot of crap vinyl around nowadays and pressing quality is bad i think. My system sounded sharp and really nice tonight, no issues....thats whats frustrating....argh!

I'm not sure if anyone has War on Drugs 'Slave Ambient'?....but i had three of these and the distortion was unlistenable on the second track 'Brothers' for all of them. The first track played through fine, lovely and clear and then the second track was really distorted...maybe its just a bad title? These runs at 45rpm aswell.

I got a MOFI last week and it sounded amazingly good, i was grinning ear to ear....just sounded amazing....so clear andfor it then to sound so distorted for the War on Drugs record is a mystery. Ive tried doing a search to find if anyone else has this issue but nothing...

 

Check the overhang on your cart, that's usually the first thing to cause sibilance.