Turntable running fast, fluctuates

Hmmm...the tonearm doesn't move like the pressing is off center, but the signal is certainly not steady. I've just been letting the whole test run and look if it averages about 3150.

 

Hello, was quite surprised , that I'm not alone in this world with similar issues! I also own ClearAudio Concept and have the same bloody thing, and I live in Russia with 230V and 50 Hz. And I'm not sure I was able to fix it all. What I did, I exchanged a speed control block for a new one just 5 days ago. Also I do own a special speed adjustment LP and a 300 Hz flashlight. I haven't been able to test TT after a speed control block exchange properly, but since I'd got it back from the dealer it was already fluctuating a bit, which was a bad sign. I did exchange the belt as well, didn't work at all. Have you managed to fix the issue on your side?

 

Knock on wood, I'm pretty sure that changing the belt solved it as best as it can be solved. It's been about 6 weeks and I've not noticed any speed fluctuations since then. Unrelated to the speed issue, but last night I was doing an A/B with an LP and a digital source of the same song and they were playing at the same speed.

I also added a Fuhrman power conditioner, but I'm not sure that did anything for the turntable (I think it helped my amp though). I do think there's something to be said for direct drives after this experience though! That new SL1200 looks mighty nice

When you say you exhanged the speed control block, do you mean something internal to the turntable, or an external speed control?

 

Congratulations, that you have managed to beat it! I've been doing the speed check tests throughout the whole day. And as I'd mentioned, I'm using ClearAudio Stroboscopic Test Record and Speed Light. It looks like it's almost impossible to achieve 100% accuracy, I'm not sure how it affects tracks, though, as I didn't do any digitizing, I was concentrated on achieving the best possible accuracy. The obstacles are evident - the belt is made from rubber and as it gradually heats up the speed gets slower, but maybe I'm too obsessed with this issue and it won't affect playback, on the other hand, the inaccuracy of speed is easily visible on the Test Record.

The speed control block is situated, where the screws for speed adjustment are located, yes, it's inside the turntable and it's an integral part of it. But the fluctuations I have now are nothing in comparison with , what I used to have with old speed control block.

Still I regret not owning an AC motor turntable, as these problems could have been easily avoided.

I had also issues with ClearAudio Phono Stage, which worked perfectly with original MC cartidge, but once I had exchanged it with Maestro V2, it has become completely useless and the sound worsened immensely, all this thanks to the fact, that the Phono wasn't adjustable, Musical Fidelity M1 ViNL perfectly fitted on the other hand.

 

Sorry to hear you're still having issues. Do you have the regular Concept or the Concept Wood? Mine is the Wood variant, which has a controller at the back with trim screws to adjust the speed, one for each 33.33, 45 and 78. Looking at the manual for the regular Concept, the speed adjustment on the Wood is much, much easier.

Seems like any table with a belt could potentially have an issue with speed from changing temperatures, humidity, etc, which I suppose is where those external speed controls help. It also looks like Clearaudio's higher end 'tables have "optical speed control" whatever that means.

 

Thank you. I think I have to let it go. I will try still to talk to a CA representative here and will write to Germany probably with a video of my ordeals. Just to get my conscious clear. Guys in CA at their HQ aren't English friendly and fast, though.

I have a regular Concept, but the control screws are also in the back, just like in yours. Optical speed control, might be the similar feature, which can be achieved by using Phoenix gadgets with AC motor TT. And this package wouldn't cost like a new car (I'm talking about higher end CA products).

 

They must have revised the whole line, because the old Concept had some other difficult way to adjust the speed, judging by the manual online.

Most of the Clearaudio turntables use a DC motor, so I'm not sure exactly what they do on their higher-end 'tables to control the speed.

Fingers crossed, I'm hoping my issue was just an old belt, as I've not noticed a problem since replacing it.

 

I have the regular Concept table that runs a bit too fast. It doesn't fluctuate, at least I don't hear it doing that, but the play speed is just enough beyond what it should be to notice. You wouldn't even notice it on songs you're unfamiliar with. Now that I have noticed it, it sticks out and I can't un-hear it. It must be an older model because the speed adjustment is on the bottom instead of the back. I've tried adjusting it but it doesn't seem to change the speed one way or the other. I haven't had the table that long so it's frustrating. I got it from Music Direct towards the end of 2013. I guess it's not impossible for the belt to be going bad, but I suspect it's been playing fast from the beginning. Is it possible the belt was bad out of the box?

At least if the speed adjustment worked I think I could get it to sound right. I'm thinking about selling it and getting a direct drive.

Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions?

 

If you think your issues are related to power line fluctuations there are several battery psu available. They plug in but the ac is used to keep a totally isolated 12v battery charged only while the battery is the TT power source. Variations at the line are no longer an issue.

 

Try a new belt. It’s a relatively inexpensive proposition. I’m not really sure how to adjust the speed on that older model.

The Concept is a good turntable, but this speed issue – so common to belt drives – is one of several reasons I switched to the Technics SL-1200G. Pitch variation drove me crazy, and I felt you shouldn’t need a separate device to get accurate speed.

 

Yeah, the 1200G and the 1200GAE look like great tables, but I can't really afford either. How does the sound quality of the 1200G compare to the Concept? I'm using the MC cart on my Concept so I'm afraid the sound quality would be a few steps down if I picked up a direct drive. I think a Rega or Pro-Ject might be closer to my current audio quality level, but then I'm still dealing with a belt drive and potential speed issues.

 

Nope. Get a Direct Drive and never worry about speed issues again.

 

The Technics is considerably and demonstrably better than the Concept. I had a Concept Wood with the Concept MC. I traded it for the SL-1200G but kept the cartridge so I could make an apples-to-apples comparison. My eyes were opened. That cartridge sounded even better on the Technics. More open, more bass, sharper transients. And of course it’s at the correct speed. I suspect the GR model gets you 90% of the way to the G, but I’ve not heard it myself.

 

Haha! Thanks!

 

Very, very interesting. I might just head in that direction. How did you find someone to trade with?

I'm speaking with Clearaudio's US distributor and if we can't figure something out, I may just do something similar to what you did.

 

Musical Surroundings (the distributor for Clearaudio in the US) is great actually. I’ve spoken to Mike Fajen a few times about turntables and cartridges. They’re the Benz Micro distributor as well, and I recently bought a Benz Micro Wood SL (and love it).

If you do decide to go another route, HiFi Heaven will let you trade in your Clearaudio ‘table. They gave me a discount on the Technics SL-1200G and gave me a good trade-in price on the turntable. PM me if you want to discuss it further.

 

Ya, my Denon direct drive is rock steady, and have never had a speed issue.

 

While a bit Off Topic, we share the same philosophy. My Technics is the SP-25 motor (the broadcast market version of the SL-1200 line). Pitch variations have always driven me nuts. And I feel like pitch stability and reliable operation daily are essential in a turntable, and shouldn't need so much upgrades to get done. I like hearing my music and not the turntable. I hope our owner of the Concept gets his issue sorted out, and stable music back to his ears.

 

Thank you, my friend. I'm still working on it. The only thing I know at this point is I'd like sell my Clearaudio and pick up a direct-drive unit. In fact, it's already all boxed up, just waiting for a buyer...

 

I have a question: On the SL-1200, the strobe that shines on the platter speed dots, I used to think the turntable itself used that to regulate the speed it played, but that's not true, is it? That's just there for us to check the speed. Is that correct?

 

Right, that's just a visual clue to relative speed. It isn't going to be 100% accurate either, but (in my best Elmer Fudd voice) it's vewy, vewy close... There are some tables that use an optical sensor or a magnetic sensor under the platter which feeds a servo feedback loop to control motor speed. Many of these do no have external speed adjustment controls as it's supposed to be automatic. A side advantage of a table that does have user adjustable speed or "pitch" is the ability to correct recordings that were done a touch too slow or too fast. That's pretty obsessive, sort of like tweaking arm height with each record, but it does permit such behavior.
-Bill

 

My favorite turntable that I owned back in the day had a very unique drive system/motor. It was the Bang & Olufsen Beogram 8000 and the "motor" was nothing more than two magnets with the same polarization and the sub-platter ran between them. The like-charge propelled the metal platter through. That was it. Very, very cool piece of gear and still sought-after today.

 

I sold my Clearaudio Concept table and picked up a Technics SL-1200MK3D that was thoroughly refurbished by Stokyo in Japan for the US market. Here is their refurbishing process:

After hand selecting Japanese market Technics turntables, each unit is put through a 100 point plus inspection process by a team of Japanese engineers.
In extreme detail, critical areas like the tone arm, tone arm assembly, wiring, platter, motor, balance, pitch, rotation etc. are examined and further tested on the oscilloscope, balance instruments and mechanical rotation counter.
Every part that does not pass inspection is replaced with original Technics parts; only original parts from Panasonic are used.
Once the turntable passes the inspection and calibrated to factory spec, the entire turntable is detail cleaned and polished.
The original RCA cables and ground wire are checked and tested. They are replaced if necessary.
The power supply is converted for the US market.
My unit came with the dust cover (in great condition!), but not all of them do. It's hit and miss.
Includes (1) year warranty that covers defects and workmanship.

The unit does not come with a cartridge or a mat. I got this for $549. Free shipping. I picked up a Nagaoka MP-110 with headshell to go with it.

It's hard to believe, especially for me, but this current rig walks all over my old Clearaudio setup. Nag cart is just unbelievable. Amazing sound, depth, and fully balanced tonality. When paired with the 1200 it's the best I've ever heard vinyl sound. Keep in mind my current rig cost around 1/8 of Clearaudio setup. Very happy with my results.

 

Totally agree on DD tables. I spent a lot of money trying to optimize my belt drive table with speed controllers, stroboscopic discs, even rim drive. Then I tried a refurbished Technics SP10 Mll and was floored.

Now I run a pair of SP10 mkllls. No need to think about a table upgrade or speed control ever again.

 

Well, I don't think I would have bought that Clearaudio. Presume you told the buyer about the speed issue?