Turntable Upgrade Question

Here's one that is kind of a $1K table and kinda not. It is when they have the Blue-Point 2 cart on it. AA had some with the Sumiko Pearl for $749 and now they seem to be blowing the last ones out. (Only white is left.)

Pro-Ject RPM 3 Carbon Turntable with Sumiko Pearl-Audio Advisor

Heinz from Pro-Ject claims that the drop form tables "sounds" better.

 

Hey Speed, thanks for the reply man. I'll check that one out!
Also, in regard to tables at the $1500 price point, anyone have any thoughts on the Music Hall MMF 7.3? I didn't see too many reviews of the table but all of the ones I saw were very good.

 

It's a nice table. Whatever you get, make sure it has a dustcover. Going to your local dealer and listening to both of the others is a good idea. No need to worry about what others think. Talk to the guy there about the quality features of each and what his take is on them. Then listen to both decks. Ideally they should be in the same system. If they have different cartridges, be aware that the one with the better cartridge will sound better when in the same system. You can tell us which one sounded better and which one you brought home with you when you're done.

-Bill

 

Hey Bill,

Good plan, I think I'll do that. Thanks!

 

Remember that most dealers will try to sell you on one of their products. IME, they'll tend to talk down any brand that they don't carry. The dealers opinion of how a piece of gear sounds is generally useless IMO. It's not much different from shopping for a car. Test drive what you can and don't be afraid to leave with nothing. Ask yourself if you'll likely be happy with this TT in a few years.

 

I love my 7.3. It's a solid turntable and (I believe) a good value. I purchased mine in late October 2016 and have had no regrets.

 

Vinyl Nirvana has Thorens Td166's from time to time. Bought one off eBay and it was great. Sold it to a friend and it remains great. Although on a different system but I felt it out performed Project 2xperience.

 

It is true that dealers will sell what they have. But it is also true that many dealers will have desirable products. It's hard to be successful selling crap. I understand that you are not really condemning all dealers with your statement but it would help to expand on what will help rather than to simply suggest that a buyer should never trust anyone. You tend to reap what you sow, or in other words, you get out of a relationship what you put into it. If you go into a dealer with mistrust and an argumentative or standoffish attitude, you will form an adversarial relationship almost immediately. Could you then expect them to want to help you? Why would he give a crap at that point; you are just there to use him. Being a buyer of hi-fi gear for 40 years and a seller for 20, I have met many, many people with different attitudes and philosophies about buying and selling hi-fi gear. I have formed my views based on those experiences and with an open mind as to what circumstances bring forward the best results. AS both a buyer and a seller, I find that being honest is the best practice. You may run into some scoundrels on either side of the deal, buyer or seller in the hunt for said deal. If you do, you either need to walk away or be certain that you have the better side of the deal. If you find an honest person to do business with, and most people will be when they are treated fairly and with respect, you will find it more rewarding.

As a buyer, you need to discover more about the product or products that you are considering. As a salesman, you are in a better position to have this knowledge. So getting off on the right foot, right away with your dealer is the best advantage for the buyer. Having a advocate is better than having an adversary. Once you have established the comfort for you both that neither intend to harm the other, you can freely exchange ideas and reward each other for this. Basically, you want to get as much as you can from the seller in terms of knowledge and support, including the best product for your needs and in exchange for that, you need to make clear and to be willing to pay for the product, and follow through with that. If you do that, you'll have great buying experiences and great systems. If not, you are on your own and you will find that as such everyone will try to take advantage of you as they would expect the same in return.
-Bill

 

Check out SOTA turntables. They've been around for decades. They're made in the US. Have great customer support, and they're upgradable. They use Rega tonearms. Tables start at $850, but also have factory refurbished models at a discount.

SOTA Turntables • Online Catalog • New Products

 

You are correct in your statements. I'm not saying a dealer is out to screw over their customer, nor was I stating that a buyer should approach the process with a distrusting attitude. I'm saying that the dealer is likely to believe that he/she is selling products that offer the best value, but it's really up to the buyer to determine what product offers the best value for their needs.

A dealer might sell great products that offer great value in a particular price range, but might not carry a product that happens to offer the best value for the buyer's particular budget.

 

I've had the AT 120 tt myself for the last 8 months and while I've been happy with it overall, added a Nagaoka MP-110 cartridge to it followed by the Schiit Mani preamp and it did wonders. However I was wanting a little bit more so I decided to "upgrade" as well but instead went the vintage route. You really have to do your research and know what you're buying so that you don't end up with a piece of junk. There are several brands and models from the 70's and early 80's to choose from that you can't go wrong with it you want that true vintage/analog sound. I ended up with a Pioneer PL-71 because I wanted an all manual set up and I love the look of it. Immediately I noticed a difference upon playing the first track of an old Elton John album. Have not regretted it since. Just another direction you can take over buying a brand new unit.

 

What about the sound you are getting is not good? What cartridge do you have on it? Maybe consider upgrading the cartridge first to see if that helps? Just an idea. As you say though, it could be the internal pre-amp effecting the sound. The Pro-Ject Debut Carbon is a great table, I know a few who own it. I would consider swapping out the included 2m red cartridge asap though, as I have had a lot of issues with sibilance on it.

Just my thoughts.

 

Hey everyone! So I just had a listening session with the Project Debut Carbon DC Esprit SB and this thing literally blows my current ATLP120 out of the water... I think I've made my decision.
Probably gonna pair it with either a Project or Schiit Mani preamp (and keep the rest of my current setup for now) - thoughts on that at all guys?
And for those who have this TT - did I make a good choice?
Any comments are appreciated and seriously guys thanks for all the helpful comments!!

 

Congrats on the new table! Glad to hear you are happy with the choice. So now that you've put some money into the table, how much of the budget is left for a preamp? The ifi iPhono 2 is making a lot of noise in the market. It's not cheap, but you don't hear many bad things about it at any price. There is a decent thread of input if you want to dive into it: Heads up!........ifi Phono 2

 

So what cartridge did the Pro-Ject come with? The Schiit Mani gets great reviews and can do MC down the road if needed. Currently listening to Nagaoka MP110 and can't believe how great it sounds with Dire Straits, just beautiful.

 

My advice would be to buy some quality used stuff. Start with the phono preamp - good choice is the PS Audio GCPH. Wonderful, full sound, completely adaptable to every cartridge, lots of easy adjustments. Used for $400 or less.

Next get a used VPI Scout. Do go with anything less. Available for around $1,000.

Get a Denon 103R cartridge - new. Don't buy used cartridges.

Enjoy! Giant killer for under $2K!

 

Hey man,
The Pro-Ject comes with Ortofon 2M Red, but I currently have a 2M Blue on my Audio Technica TT so I was planning to swap out the red for the blue. And definitely leaning to pair it with the Schiit Mani as I've heard good things! Thoughts?
- Matt

 

Agreed, the mani is good and I kinda want to get one for myself but really don't have an excuse to buy another phono stage right now haha. How does the 2m blue sound?

 

How recently did you get the MP-110? I ordered one a few days ago and wonder how the sound changed before/after break in.

 

I've had the Nag for about four years. It started out on my sons Thorens and probably took twenty to thirty hours to settle in. More extended at the extremes and richness in the mids seems to sum up the break in. Now it's in rotation on my Systemdek and giving my Grace F9 and Grado Sonata a run for their money.

 

The 2M blue sounds pretty rock solid on my AT-LP120, tracks much better than the stock AT cart that came with the TT and good dynamic range. I'm sure it'll sound even better when I upgrade to the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC Esprit SB as I'm planning!
And planning to get the Schiit Mani as well, would be within my budget after the new TT, which will be $600. Hoping for the best!! Think this will be a good decision? From listening to the Pro-Ject today, it's definitely a step above my current Audio Technica as I mentioned.

 

I would start keeping an eye on soundstage directs used, demo, and trade in turntables....
They have an upgrade plan so there are always tables at all different price ranges and they stand by stuff....I just bought a 1 year old Clearaudio Performance DC table that new lists for 3k with tonearm for $1799
It had not a scratch and original packaging and accessories....
They have pro-ject tables often.....if you buy cart from them they set it up for you....I can't say enough good stuff about Seth and the folks at Soundstage direct...
Elusive disc and music direct have the same programs and have good reps also....another thing with soundstage is that if you buy a table new or used, you have 365 days to trade it in for a new table that is at least $500 more and they credit you the full price for trade in that you paid for the original table.......
I am not affiliated with any of these companies but am just sharing a great experience/deal..

 

IMO, it's really up to you. If you want to spend 130 bucks, then it is THE phono stage to get (imo). If you wanted to save a bit and get something cheaper though, then by all means. Personally I'd say go for it if it is inside your budget. To me, I think its better to put more money into the best cartridge you can afford. Phono stages do affect the sound quality though, but to me its very subtle. Hope you enjoy the new turntable, it will be worth it

EDIT: Another thing to consider is whether you plan on moving up to MC cartridges, as the Mani works for both (set and forget type deal, won't have to buy another phono stage later on, provided you like it of course.)

 

Well guys, I pulled the trigger and bought the Schiit Mani preamp, should be coming in the mail tomorrow! And hoping to pick up the new turntable this weekend. Hoping for the best..

 

Welcome to the forum!

Ditto on the Orbit Plus.