Turntable upgrade: Rega Planar 3 or Pioneer PLX-1000

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by 4011021, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    He'd still have to spend more money though to get something the Pioneer can do out of the box.
     
  2. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Some have theorized (and written too) that Rega up-speeds their machines on purpose, that the slightly faster speed itself contributes to the Rega "toe-tapping" sound. I don't own a Rega, but they surely are very popular, and it's clear that they're doing something right. In the same ways that Bose shapes their house sound based on psychoacoustic research, it's possible that Rega's in-house research found a human affinity for slight up-speed and built it into their designs. I used to be bothered by their reputation for running fast, but I don't find it objectionable if that is their purpose, and really, how could it be possible that Rega machines would almost universally arrive from the factory up-speed if it were not an intentional design feature?
     
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  3. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brazil
    I read that. Music that runs slightly faster often sounds clearer just like if it runs too slow it sounds blurred. It definitely wouldn't stop me from buying a Rega due to many positive reviews (of course, otherwise I wouldn't start this thread) but sometime I would probably feel the need to have that Neo PSU.
     
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  4. Prism

    Prism Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Miami
    I recently upgraded my TT as well and settled on the Rega Planar 6. If you feel you will need the Neo PSU, consider the Planar 6 as it is about the same price as a Planar 3 with a Neo PSU and is a step-up from the Planar 3. The Planar 6 costs more than the Pioneer or P3, and was more than I was looking to spend as well. However, my current philosophy on audio upgrades is to go as big as I feel comfortable so I do not feel the need for another upgrade in a couple years (e.g., its better to pay once and be done with it than to pay twice).
     
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  5. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    I'm thinking Rega does it on purpose. (the faster than 33.33 rpm) Nothing else makes sense to me.
     
  6. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brazil
    Sounds truly unlikely that engineers who can build those amazing tables can't fix the speed.
     
  7. Davey

    Davey very clever with maracas

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Well, I think it is generally assumed that they set up the manufacturing tolerances for nominal to be slightly on the high side. One thing to understand is that with the Rega design, you have a relatively small diameter subplatter that is driven by the motor pulley via a belt. Since the subplatter is small, the motor pulley must be pretty small too, so the belt thickness will significantly effect the speed since the median thickness is added to that small pulley diameter to determine the drive ratio. The parts on the low cost models are mostly plastic, so the pulley and belt tolerances can't be very tight, along with the motor placement, and the presumption is that nominal would be slightly fast to prevent errors on the low side from making it too slow (which is generally less preferred, as mentioned above).

    I'm not sure if the higher precision models as you move up the line have less incidence of high speed or not, but they are gradually getting adjustable speed power supplies.
     
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  8. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    It is only very small fractions of a percent that they are talking about. The slight differences in belt diameter or tension can cause that from unit to unit. Most people can't hear pitch to that level of accuracy. Many other belt driven tables have similar tolerances for speed. Very few are within thousandths of a percent, certainly not over the life of the belt. Speed can more easily be controlled (and more cheaply) by using DC motors, but the speed drift is worse as is motor longevity. There are trade-offs for every design choice.
    -Bill
     
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  9. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Agree, that's why I think they must be doing this on purpose. This faster speed I'm guessing sells turntables, i.e. part of what makes up the Rega "sound"

    Definitely allows for sales of optional speed control devices for those that consider the correct speed to be most important.
     
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  10. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brazil
    Well at least until now no one told me to keep my Debut Carbon, so I guess that part is a consensus :righton:
     
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  11. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I'll be the first to say that if you're happy with the Pro-Ject, you should absolutely keep it. Does it sound good to you in your environment? $1000USD would buy a lot of records!

     
  12. Mrtn77

    Mrtn77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    European Union
    Well, you did say you had multiple issues with it.
     
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  13. Licorice pizza

    Licorice pizza Livin’ On The Fault Line

    I’ve had the Pioneer Plx-1000 almost four years now and I’m so happy with it. No hum, speed or cartridge issues whatsoever. I endorse it 110%.

    As to your lack of highs? The Audio Technica 440mlb cartridge should end all of that. That is my combination. May I also add that the Schiit Mani preamp also took the sound up a beautiful notch.

    Good luck on whatever you choose.
    :righton:
     
  14. Urbs

    Urbs Active Member

    Location:
    USA
    Hahaha I have the same problem lol.
     
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  15. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brazil
    I was kidding, I'll probably keep it for a future secondary system but now I want something better.
     
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  16. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brazil
    Yes I do, just a joke.
     
  17. Johnny Wong

    Johnny Wong Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Thanks for all of the advice in this thread. I’m in the same position as the OP and these are the exact tables I’ve been looking at. I use the 2m Blue and plan on keeping that for now. I’m leaning toward the Pioneer, Just have to save up some money for the change...
     
  18. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brazil
    Hello guys,

    Just to let you know that I made a decision, bought a PLX-1000, it's already here and playing.

    Thank you all for your help.

    Why I did not chose the Rega:

    - I have physical limitations where the turntable is set and it would not be possible to change the base my turntable must be on, in my living room. So I thank very much to all of you who warned me about that.

    - Upgrades and accessories would be very hard to find and very expensive where I live.

    I chose the Pioneer because of all the good features you pointed out.

    First thing I noticed: hum is gone! The system is incredibly silent. I knew motor hum would be gone but didn't think the hum from the amplifier would disappear too.

    I set my Nagaoka MP-110, I couldn't fix overhang properly but at the same time it's aligned according to my protractor. But this discussion belongs in other thread and I will report things like that in the PLX-1000 thread if I think it would be useful.

    Thanks again all around, I'm very satisfied so far.
     
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  19. Davey

    Davey very clever with maracas

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Yea, there's not really a wrong choice in these matters once you get above the very bottom. Whichever one gets out of the way and lets you sit back and enjoy listening to your music is the right pick. Sounds like you're just about there, always fun to read about someone being satisfied with their purchase after all the exchange of ideas here :)
     
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  20. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brazil
    After a few more hours I can say that issue #3 is also solved. To get more highs I needed VTA and anti skate adjustment. Been playing with these things to great results. Cartridge is the same and of course it maintains its signature sound but I can hear much more now.

    So the three issues I mentioned seem to be solved.

    :edthumbs:
     
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  21. eyeCalypso

    eyeCalypso Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    What are the Feickert results?
     
  22. Robert C

    Robert C Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    It's a disc that tests speed accuracy.
     
  23. eyeCalypso

    eyeCalypso Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Gotcha, thx.
     
  24. Dr. J.

    Dr. J. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    I was at my local hi-fi shop yesterday listening to the Planar 3 and I got to say I'm still smitten with it. But that Elys II is not my cup of tea: there's no refinement on top. I go home to do a little research on carts and, of course, all will need some spacers to dial in the correct VTA. For example, I would like to put a Nagaoka MP-110 on there which would require 6mm of lift. Okay, fine, just get the Rega 3 Point Adjustable spacer for $30. Wrong. If you read the fine print, this spacer does not work with the new RB-330 arm. I now would have to buy three of the 2mm metal spacers, which would make the table another $120. Rega does not make it easy on the consumer.
     
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  25. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Brazil
    This may not be a big trouble depending on where you live. But if it's a $120 in US, it would be surely a $250-$300 trouble where I live if someone would sell these spacers here. Probably not, then eBay would deliver it in about 30 days if I'm lucky for $20 for tracked shipping, if I'm not lucky in 60-90 days with 60% of import taxes over the shipping costs. Here, to buy a good turntable with VTA adjustment makes more sense I think.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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