Turntables – $1000 Class, and 'WooHoo!!' Class

Hi there. I'm coming back to audiophilia after 25 years being out of the game. The 'vinyl revival' has finally gotten me to sit up and take notice, and I'm intent on re-creating a good, mostly analog-based system, like I had 'back in the day'.

My budget is pretty much whatever I want it to be. But, I'm a bit of a cheapskate, so I may have to justify an expensive system to myself by getting a cheaper one first, and loving THAT so much than I then really open up the pocketbook.

Or not. I can be convinced by a helluva demo. I'm not made of stone.

So, starting off with what I consider to be the most important element - the turntable - there's two classes of options I'm considering... a 'modest' $1000-1500 or so deck, and then the 'Woohoo!!' (Homer Simpson voice) option, where I spend 2 to 4 times that. But 'Woohoo' doesn't mean I don't still want good value for money.

I prefer a more musical sound to cold/clinical, and I heard a number of good 'tables back in the '80s/very early '90s – I liked Linns, Systemdeks, Michells, and Goldmunds, that kind of sound.

I've narrowed down my choices to the following:

$1000-1500 class -
Audio Note TT1 (aka an improved/updated Systemdek IIX)
Clearaudio Concept
Rega Planar 3
VPI Player
VPI Scout Jr.

'Woohoo!!' class -
Audio Note TT2
Linn Sondek (Magik level, or bare w/Rega or OL arm)
Michell GyroSE/GyroDec
VPI Scout 1.1 or Prime Scout
VPI Prime


Thoughts from anyone who's actually heard some of these 'tables? Much appreciated.

 

I haven't heard any of the tables listed but if you think it's likely that this isn't just going to be a casual fling with vinyl and as you have the means forget $1000-1500 and go "Woohoo!!" Based on your list personally I'd be looking at the VPI Prime which seems to get universally great reviews.

 

I think if you are going for Woohoo class I would skip the Michell Gyro and go for their Orbe SE. It's got far better bass and a darker sound while maintaining detail. May fit the 'warmth' criteria without sacrificing resolution. Way above old LP12 or Systemdec sound. If SME arms are too pricey I suggest the Audiomods arm. Out of those listed the TT2 with Audionote arm 2/3 might be to your taste. Forget about the 'budget' Linn version. Overpriced these days as are their upmarket versions.

At the lower price point the new P3 sounds outstanding with their new £500 MC cartridge. Would also suggest the Michell Tecnodec with RB330 arm.

 

I haven't heard the VPIs, the Clearaudio or current Rega Planar 3, I have however heard most other Regas including the 10 which might be worth including in the second group, I have heard many, many Linns, but not the current Magik, I own a Michell Gyro SE and have spent some time listening to both the Audio Notes. Based on what I've heard and also read I think all of the first group are valid choices and you need to listen to them, see them in the flesh and work out what cartridge you can afford with each to make a valid decision, none of them are bad decks and each could make you happy, so synergy and even looks come into play.

Leaving aside the VPIs in the second group, I've heard the Audio Note sound very, very good, but I did come away feeling it was expensive for what it is and as it's in the Michell Orbe price range I'd go for an Orbe every time, in fact I'd go for the cheaper Gyro SE over the Audio Note although I can see and hear why some would make the opposite choice, it's a good sounding deck. I believe the current Linn's are less Linn sounding, personally I don't like them, the older ones, if they do what you want get one, but for me if you compare a Linn side by side with other decks you hear their weaknesses pretty quickly. I also think Linns are very expensive for what they are, when the original Gyrodec came out it cost twice what a Linn did, nowadays the Gyro SE is cheaper and a better sounding and looking deck, the Gyro SE is the pick of the bunch for me, but if that's your choice budget for the HR power supply, it's an essential upgrade for the Gyro, even if it means choosing a cheaper arm.

One thing that makes giving transatlantic advice difficult is the different pricing, what may be very good value here can be very expensive in the States and vice versa, so my advice is based on UK pricing.

 

I totally agree that the Orbe is the best deck if it's within budget.

 

Truthfully, every table you have listed are really good options....not a bad table in the group.

I would perhaps think about what cartridge you might want to run, mm/mc, and think about if you want a standard/gimbal arm or unipivot. From there, you can somewhat narrow your choices down a bit and then take a little time to try those out via local dealers (if you have any).

I would likely go ahead and suggest adding the Rega RP8/10 to your woohoo class as well.

 

For those folks saying 'Go Orbe!!!'... aren't Gyro SEs/GyroDecs upgradeable to 'near-Orbe' status?

Oh, and far as my arm strategy goes, I'm thinking

$500 arm – Rega RB 330 (or Rega 250?)
$1000-ish arm – Origin Live Silver (or Zephyr) or Rega RB808
$2000 arm – SME 309

Good choices, assuming a well-matched cart?

...

 

I just upgraded from a VPI Scout to a Prime.

Not sure how much of a difference the Turntable made but the sound is now:
- more lush and sweet with a great mid-range, smoother/subdued highs and boosted low-end compared to bright/harsher highs with a sub-par mid-range with the Scout.
- Wider sound-stage and more "airy"; less clinical

But I am sure this difference is mostly due to the cartridges. I changed over from a 2M Black (MM; no slouch) on the Scout to a Quintet Black (MC). I also notice a significant reduction in s/n.

 

You might be forgetting the Technics SL-1200GR or SL-1200G? Mine has made me smitten with vinyl again, and I think this is truly the last 'table I'll ever own.

 

Maybe look at Sota.

 

Although some people with hybrid Michells will claim that they are near Orbe level the answer is no, a Gyro with Orbe suspension and platter is not an Orbe, nor is it a Gyro, plus if you want an Orbe it's a lot cheaper to buy an Orbe than add Orbe bits to a Gyro. I'm not saying that adding Orbe bits can't improve the sound of a Gyro, just that you can take it too far and you won't have either at the end, I will say that the Orbe spindle/clamp is a relatively cheap and positive upgrade.

Those are all good arms, my Gyro went, RB-250, RB-600, TechnoArm, and my Orbe went TechnoArm to SME IV, I'd say get what you can afford, but if you have to make savings now and upgrade later I'd do it on the arm rather than the deck or cartridge, you'd still get decent performance from a Rega whilst you saved for an SME for example, although the SME is much better.

 

$1000 ish arm- add the Audiomods Series V to the list.

 

Have they changed much? I heard SOTA Sapphires/Star Sapphires back in the day, and while I was really impressed with their detail and resolution, they sounded rather cold/clinical and 'digital-like' to me.

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Very much the same.

 

Either way I'd check Vinyl Nirvana, too.

 

I'd second this. I have a Rega RP6 (1500 buck class). It's a great table. Simple to set up and use (idiot proof actually), and has a dustcover, and when mated with a Rega Exact cartridge gives you really good performance. So good in fact that after auditioning tables in the 3 grand price range I came to the conclusion that there is no point in making that upgrade. I'd pass on the Mitchell and VPI decks if I were you and either go for a Technics SL1200g (which is just a fantastic table) or go the restored and replinthed Gerrard route with a 12 inch arm. If you want a belt drive check out Audio Nirvana. He does a few Thornes TD125 long base models that he mounts a sweet 12 inch SME arm every year.

I've come to the conclusion you need a big jump in tech, cost and design to make it worth upgrading from the RP6 and VPI Scout model level.

But man that 1200G. It just sounds so good.

 

I have a roughly 40 year old Kenwood direct drive turntable. It still works Perhaps the low RPM's of direct drive makes them last. Thing weights a ton as the base is made out of artificial stone. It has an old style metal s curve arm and I have 40 year old LP's to play on it, LOL.

 

I would stick to the > $1500 range if it doesn't drain your wallet.

My vote is for the Michell or Linn Sondek. Between those, whichever has the better customer service record.

Customer support should be one of the top priorities in this price range. Too many manufactures have quality control issues, even in the $3k range. It shouldn't be this way, but unfortunately, that's the reality.

 

Not sure about the US distributor, but Michell themselves have superb customer service in the unlikely event there is a problem.

 

Had a number of tables over the years, denon, thorens, sl1200, michell, and spent time with others, etc... but finally settled on an Oracle Delphi mk2. I recommend you looks at used or new from Oracle. They make a very well engineered product imo. The suspension is awesome.... I get NO feed back which was always an issue no matter what tt I had. Also, the clamp and mat is supreme as it forces the records FLAT and in contact with the mat. It sounds great, I have no issues. Plus it looks damn good too.

The sl1200 is a tank but its no audiophile table. The platter is a bell and there is a transformer below it.....really? The arm is user friendly but there are much better arm out there. It's ok if you are putting a denon DL110 but not a Dynavector that cost 4x the sl1200.
I personally would also stay away from those mdf platter and plinth tt's. Say what they will to sell it, I would not spend that kind of money on an mdf table with a cheap motor.

 

We're talking about the SL-1200G, not the mkII. And yes, I use a Dynavector XX2mkII on it that cost about 4x what an old SL-1200 cost

 

I hope I can give you some reliable input regarding your question. I was in the same boat as you, as I had not bought anything new in regard to turntables since the early 80's at which time I purchased the Studer/ReVox B-791, which I recently sold. Here is what I bought and have been just extremely happy with it. I have a somewhat modified VPI Scout, as you can see, mine has a very thick, visually appealing (to me) 2" thick acrylic platter which they used to charge an extra $600 or more dollars for. For whatever reason, probably cost, VPI decided to not use acrylic in the future, my gain! They built like three of these to get rid of some stock. I was just so pleased with the quality of the turntable as well as the easy set up and the nice heavy duty cartridge alignment device that came with the turntable. Here is what it looks like.



Mine would be considered at VPI Scout 1.1 with a platter modification. Ok, in regard to the others, I think you can go too cheap, so for me, I would not go with the VPI Scout Jr. or Player. IMO the Scout is all you really need! Couple that with a nice cartridge, and I believe you will be very happy! I like the Claraudio Concept, only good reports on that turntable and the Rega Planar 3 has a good following, but again, let me just put my vote in for the VPI Scout. I really wanted the Prime, but just could not see spending more money. If you decide to spend more the Prime Scout would be great or the Prime would be greater, and is all the turntable any normal audiophile could ever need. I put money into a really cool super thick dust cover I had made, as well as a thick marble platform with isolation feet, and I put that stupid looking VPI mat in storage. Had I not already had a good cartridge, I would have probably opted for the Ortofon 2M Black (MM) cartridge, or the more expensive Ortofon Quintet (MC) cartridge, however I already had the vintage Shure V-15 Type V-MR cartridge, so I lined it up with the great VPI alignment tool and it sounds great. The VPI motor which you see in the picture is very heavy and ultra whisper quiet, very hefty, quality construction. The arm and anti-skate are very easy to adjust and the build quality is very good! For the money, the Scout is just hard to beat. It should be mentioned, you can really drop some money on a phono stage, as I did, purchasing the Parasound JC-3+, which was such a vast improvement over anything in any receiver or Integrated amplifier. The phono stage is at least 70% of the final sound you will get out of your turntable/cartridge.

The Prime Scout and especially the Prime would really be a nice improvement, visually appealing, but I chose what I chose and it was a very good choice for me. I hope this is helpful to you, as I have first hand knowledge of this particular table. Happy listening.

 

I used to love my TD125/Formula IV back in the day. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this site.
Vintage Turntables For Sale - AR Turntable Vinyl Nirvana Acoustic Research Merrill Thorens TD 160 For Sale

 

Been mentioned but I concur. I have a TD150 from VN and it is one fine sounding beast. Not to mention the plinths they are making. I will die with that table.

 

Terrific post, Litejazz, much appreciated.

Two further Qs for you...

1- How would you characterize the 'VPI sound'? Musical, clinical/detailed, impactful bass or not, airy highs or a bit 'dark-yet-realistic' sounding, lots of PRAT, no PRAT, what? Maybe contrast it with other 'tables you've heard?

2- How much did that custom acrylic dust cover set you back? There's a plastics place near my house that does work like that, and for some reason turntable companies nowadays want to charge you and arm and a leg for dust covers... crazy . Would not mind doing an end-run around that bit of foolishness, if possible.

Thanks again for your help. This is pretty awesome forum.

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