Twin Peaks: The Return (2017)...*Contains Spoilers!!*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Jerry Horne, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. htom

    htom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Alternatively,

    The 10 Best TV Shows of 2017 [BBC]

    The Best TV Shows of 2017 [Variety] Maureen Ryan lists "honorable mention" as she has not seen the entire series yet.

    The Best TV Shows of 2017 [New York Times]

    The 10 best (and 5 worst) TV shows of 2017 [EW.com]

    The 25 Best TV Shows of 2017 [Esquire]

    NPR's Favorite TV Shows of 2017

    Either all lists mean something or they all mean nothing.
     
  2. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Yeah the series got overwhelmingly good critical reception. Vidiot posted the first flat-out negative end of the year review I've seen for it.
     
  3. kevywevy

    kevywevy Forum Resident

    I just read "The Final Dossier" and have started watching the Blu-ray set and, what do you know, I actually understand a fair amount of what I'm seeing this time! It's much more enjoyable now that the book has given me a general understanding of what's' going on. And no "when the hell is Cooper going to appear?" or "what the hell was that about?" thoughts (well okay, still a few of the latter) to distract me this time.
     
  4. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    It was haaaaaarible. I would like the show better if it was about 10 hours shorter.
     
  5. NickCarraway

    NickCarraway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gastonia, NC
    And there you have it. An eighteen-hour show should not require supplemental material in order to inform the viewer of what's going on.
     
    Spitfire and rburly like this.
  6. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    The exact point. A tv show or movie should stand on its own. Needing to read the writers minds or reading about it shouldn't be a requirement for enjoying a show/movie.
     
    Spitfire likes this.
  7. rontoon

    rontoon Floydian Archivist

    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    It wasn't a requirement for me. I enjoyed it for what it was despite its criticisms.
     
    GentleSenator and Culpa like this.
  8. frozen-beach

    frozen-beach Forum Resident

    You don't need it though. I haven't even read it, and I've come to understand the series for myself. Other people have difficulty with this, hence why the book exists.
     
    Billy Budapest likes this.
  9. kevywevy

    kevywevy Forum Resident

    The book also tells us what happened to all of the main characters on the original show, something this season did not do.
     
    Big Pasi likes this.
  10. malcolm reynolds

    malcolm reynolds Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oklahoma
    I finished my third watch through of the season. It all makes sense now...



    just kidding.
     
  11. NickCarraway

    NickCarraway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gastonia, NC
    [​IMG]
     
    numer9 likes this.
  12. Brian_Svoboda

    Brian_Svoboda Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Having now watched almost all of Disc 8 on the new Blu-Ray set (the documentaries), it’s clear that there’s nothing in the series that Lynch didn’t do purposefully. He instructed Michael Horse on the inflection of a particular line; got onto his hands and knees to color blood and brain fluids onto Ruth Davenport’s pillow; and threw a profane fit when he asked for a specific type of craft material and got Plaster of Paris instead. I find this makes for rich and rewarding viewing.

    Watching the show unfold in (scrambled) real time also confused and obscured some basic plot points. Not to be like the ninth caveman to discover fire or anything, but a small example of that for me was Tracey in episode 1. Why was she so eager to get into that room? Why did the guard go AWOL when she came the second time? It didn’t seem clear to me then, but it seems very obvious to me now that Bad Coop (or one of his agents) suborned her into seducing Sam in front of the cube, to lure and trap Judy in the box. It almost worked!
     
  13. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    But Bad Coop was the one who owned and ran the room with the box in it... so why would he need to send someone to infiltrate it?
     
  14. Brian_Svoboda

    Brian_Svoboda Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Bad Coop was trying to capture Judy. That’s his motivation throughout the whole show. That’s why he goes to Buckhorn, where there’s a portal to Judy’s dimension that Hastings has discovered. That’s why he goes to Twin Peaks, where there’s another portal. And that’s why he buys the building in New York, which sits next to yet another portal. Through cut-outs, Bad Coop bought the building and installed the box to capture Judy. He hired Sam and others before him, who had no idea what was going on, to watch the box. Bad Coop knew that Judy was drawn to sex: this proves important in Episode 18, with “Richard” and “Linda.” So, again through cutouts, he arranged for Tracey to seduce Sam and unwittingly entice Judy into coming into the box. And that’s what happens, to Sam and Tracey’s permanent regret.
     
    rontoon likes this.
  15. bopdd

    bopdd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I was never convinced of this interpretation. It made more sense to me that Judy appeared in the box because she was on Coop's tail (hence his appearance beforehand). Otherwise, why not just have any two people have sex in front of the box? On the other hand, I have heard multiple people imply that sex was a motivating factor in the scene (and not a distraction). Perhaps you could elucidate further.
     
  16. rontoon

    rontoon Floydian Archivist

    Location:
    Chicago, USA
  17. Brian_Svoboda

    Brian_Svoboda Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    I agree that Judy was “on Coop’s tail.” We see that in Episode 3. Either Sam and Tracey were in the wrong place at the wrong time, because Coop came while they were downstairs, and Judy followed while they were upstairs. Or Evil Coop used Sam and Tracey as bait to get Judy to come to the box. I think it was probably the second because, otherwise, the guard’s absence is an inexplicable coincidence. I suppose it could have been both.

    In any case, here’s my reasoning for the “bait” theory:

    1. We know that Bad Coop is behind the box.
    2. We know (or can reasonably guess) that Bad Coop is trying to capture Judy. (“Do you know what this is? This is what I want.”)
    3. We know (or can reasonably guess) that sex, like violence, draws Judy out.
    4. Tracey makes clear that she is interested not only in Sam but in getting upstairs.
    5. But Sam will not let Tracey up unless the guard is gone.
    6. We know (or can reasonably guess) that Bad Coop controls the guard.
    7. The guard goes AWOL right before Tracey arrives the second time.
     
    bopdd likes this.
  18. bopdd

    bopdd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    This is the one I have a problem with. Even if we presume that the thing inside Sarah Palmer and the thing inside the box represent the same general overarching entity, I don't see "sex" as being something that would draw it out of its netherworld or what you have you. I think when Coop goes through the floor in the Red Room he enters Judy's (or the experiment's) domain and she gives chase. Meanwhile, Bad Coop somehow realized that passing through that same netherworld entails occasionally appearing inside the box, so they both appear. I do find the security's guard's absence odd (and even suspicious), but I'm also okay with it being some sort of coincidence or a convenient plot device. As someone else mentioned, if Bad Coop owns the whole operation, why go through the charade of making a guard disappear? Why not just hire a bunch of people to have sex in the room?
     
    Brian_Svoboda likes this.
  19. grayskale

    grayskale Forum Resident

    Location:
    Malaysia
    When you get to the 'A bloody finger in your mouth' segment (I think that's the one), this will ring very true - especially in reference to people complaining about the length of the scenes.

    While filming a scene where Candie is trying to swat a fly, one of the crew mentions that the scene could be too long - and for the viewers who think much of the 18hours could have been chopped down to 10 - his response is very telling and pure gold. You'll love it. :)
     
    Brian_Svoboda likes this.
  20. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Considering people everywhere are having sex all the time, it seems like Judy would be popping out all over the place.
    Although...
    I suppose the scenario could be set up to make their sex illicit or forbidden, and thus a greater lure for Judy... it all seems rather convoluted though.
     
    Brian_Svoboda and bopdd like this.
  21. The Zodiac

    The Zodiac God's Lonely Man

    I thought Tracey was maybe working for the Feds. She was snooping. But then the sex ritual and expected outcome. Its not clear. a lot of the show is too open. We just weren't given enough to work with, which is why I'm thinking much less about things than I did after seeing Fire Walk With Me.
     
    Brian_Svoboda likes this.
  22. Brian_Svoboda

    Brian_Svoboda Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Not right next to Black Lodge portals! Well, not outside of Twin Peaks, anyway.
     
  23. Brian_Svoboda

    Brian_Svoboda Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    On the general idea, this is where the Jack Parsons/Alesteir Crowley stuff in the Frost books comes in. Also - as someone posted somewhere, maybe here - note the parallel structure of the 18 episodes. In Ep 1, Sam and Tracey get it on, draw Judy out, and get killed. In Ep 18, “Richard” and “Linda” get it on, draw Judy out, and kill her (one supposes). There are other parallels, too. We see Coop for about 2.5 hours in Eps 1-3 and then he becomes Dougie; he reverts from Dougie-dom about a half hour into Ep 16 and so we get Coop for the last 2.5 hours of the series.
     
  24. Brian_Svoboda

    Brian_Svoboda Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    We know Tracey wasn’t working for the Feds from Tamara’s breathless briefing to Gordon and Albert in Ep 3. That is, unless Gordon ran the op and cut Tamara out, which is the sort of thing he’d do, except that the show gives us no other reason to think he did it here, and instead plainly means us to think that Bad Coop was running the op.
     
  25. The Zodiac

    The Zodiac God's Lonely Man

    Coop and Diane go through the portal in the car, right? And then they are driving in a older looking vehicle. And they go to a motel. Is this motel the same motel that Agent Jeffries resides? Is this the Dutchmans but in a different timeline or dimension or something? So is this particular location another portal of sorts and that's why Diane and Coop do the business? And why does Diane see herself outside the hotel? And where does she go in the morning? And why is Coop not concerned by her disappearance? And did the sex act cause him to wake up in a different time with a different car with Laura living in Odessa? I have too many questions and there are infinite possibilities. This is why I'm less interested in pursuing an answer. At least before we could narrow it down to a handful of scenarios. Here we have hardly anything to work with. I don't require direct answers but surely we need more than what he's given us to make heads or tails out of some of it.
     

Share This Page