Ultra 4K question

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by rjp, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. rjp

    rjp Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    ohio
    Will an 'ultra 4k" disc play on a blu-ray player?

    thanks
     
  2. No, it has different encodes and, to the best of my knowledge no.
     
  3. rjp

    rjp Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    ohio
    thank you, i didn't even know until today that made ultra 4k disc players.
     
  4. Sure.

    Yeah 4K does improve on blu ray and upscale on regular blu's look pretty nice. Need a 4K TV however. DVD doesn't look as good and the flaws are even more noticeable for authoring (I.e., edge enhancement, crushed blacks, etc.) but, since s appears as if it will never come to Blu or Ultra for that matter, I'm keeping them and will just put up with the lower resolution. For anything through the mid-60's (with rare exceptions like "Lawrence of Arabia") I doubt I will upgrade as a lot of those films, while already high Rez by their nature, some of the stocks used were transitional at best between better film stocks that came later. Particularly some of the cheaper productions shout on Hammerscope or Technoscope like "The Skull" and "Brides of Dracula" etc. plus I doubt I will see them released physically as interest in older films is diminished with time.
     
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  5. stereoguy

    stereoguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn
    I believe that I read that the FCC just approved the codec standard for 4K over the air television and that the manufacturers will be ramping up production of these sets.

    And...wouldnt it be FANTASTIC if one of the big electronics companies built a factory right here in America to make these sets? If one did, I'd spend the extra $$$ and buy the American built set and support my fellow workers.

    Just like 1954:
    RCA Model CT-100 Color Television (1954)
     
    EVOLVIST and Rufus McDufus like this.
  6. Well provided the quality is good, yes. I wouldn't buy Sony though because Sony doesn't make Sony any longer...it's build by Samsung or some other organization.
     
  7. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    That's correct - the standard is ATSC 3.0 . If you already have a 4k UHD capable tv, but the tv doesn't yet have an ASC3.0 compatible tuner, you might be able to get a dongle for it. ATSC president Mark Richer was quoted: “We expect devices such as ATSC 3.0 ‘dongle’ receivers that plug into the HDMI ports of existing receivers to be available early in the roll-out. In part, HDR backwards compatibility will be determined by the capabilities of the display.”

    This is also a good resource:
    https://hdguru.com/will-your-tv-be-compatible-with-atsc-3-0-broadcast-hdr/
     
    Shawn likes this.
  8. stereoguy

    stereoguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn
    Thanks Deesky. I am actually in the market for a new TV, but now I will wait and get one with the ASC3.0 tuner built in.
     
  9. Vidiot

    Vidiot See It in Dolby Vision!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Be warned that a lot of so-called "4K" releases are made from upscaled 2K masters. There are always exceptions.
     
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  10. slovell

    slovell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chesnee, SC, USA
    I'm not buying another format and rebuying discs for it this time. There's just not enough 4K content (discs or TV) available out there to justify it. I'm not falling for a curved TV either. What happens to your view when you sit off axis?
     
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  11. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    You don't have to re-buy discs as all your old discs will play just fine on a UHD player, and you will be able to take advantage of new UHD mastered content.

    Don't worry about it, that particular fad has already been ditched...
     
  12. rjp

    rjp Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    ohio
    yessiree, curved TV's lasted almost as long as duel-discs. you just know there was no way it was going to work.
     
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  13. slovell

    slovell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chesnee, SC, USA
    True, but if you want 4K you still have to pony up for a TV and a player.
     
  14. ted321

    ted321 Well-Known Member

    I'm not rebuying either. Waiting for 8K.
     
  15. FACE OF BOE

    FACE OF BOE Well-Known Member

    Location:
    London
    Im waiting for 32K.
     
  16. profholt82

    profholt82 Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Michigan
    It's worth noting that the Xbox One S is equipped with a UHD disc drive, and runs about the same price as standalone UHD players if not a little cheaper.
     
  17. darkmass

    darkmass Well-Known Member

    That ought to be a big nail in broadcast television's coffin.

    As it is the FCC is engaged in auctioning off portions of broadcast television spectrum to bidders for wireless. While the FCC is doing what it can so viewers may not be affected *much*, there will still be effects. Of course a growing number people are turning to wireless devices (many of the devices with quite small screens compared to home televisions--though smart TVs should be factored in) for streamed viewing, and at the same time it's wireless that is munching on broadcast television spectrum.

    Here, and here.

    UHD television may use better compression codecs than standard HD, and I haven't seen any final data size comparisons, but it's probably not too unreasonable to say UHD will use 2x to 3x the bandwidth of HD OTA broadcasts. An additional facet in the UHD bandwidth consideration is the matter of interlaced versus progressive. Will UHD broadcasts be interlaced (makes sense) or progressive? If progressive, that will lead to that much greater bandwidth requirements.

    And, of course, the new UHD equipment will cost stations money. And for how much real-world visual gain in broadcast quality?

    Now understand that I have a 4K television. I picked up a 2016 Sony XBR-55X930D (Sony's best 2016 55" 4K screen), as well as a Panasonic DMP-UB900 4K Blu-ray player, when I learned that there would be no 2017 television screen supporting 3D. I had originally planned to wait before getting into 4K, but I have a significant investment in 3D Blu-ray discs...and walking away from my investment wasn't an option. My new Sony does 3D, as does the Panasonic. I've picked up a few 4K Blu-ray discs (there are currently precious few with content worth seeing in my opinion--but that's a different matter) and they are indeed nice to watch, but a wee bit short of compelling. I watch movies at home, but my television watching is all OTA (except for standard DVD and Blu-ray disc based television series, and watching HD Tivo broadcast recordings), and HD television looks quite fine on my Sony. But. I personally see little utility in 4K television broadcasting. More broadcast pixels? A specious goal in my view. Greater dynamic range and a more refined color space? Nice, sure, but all-in-all a pretty marginal gain compared to the infrastructure disruption in the lives of viewers and broadcasters.

    Anyway, at a time when broadcast television is fading from public perception, when the OTA spectrum is going through some auctioning off, 4K will cost in viewer and broadcaster equipment and chew up more bandwidth at a time when the FCC is reducing available bandwidth. Will profits increase for broadcast networks due to 4K? Think about it.

    I see nothing but downside for 4K OTA broadcasting. Just because a technology can be implemented does not mean it needs to be implemented.
     
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  18. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    What do you think of Oled screens Wayne ?
     
  19. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    Seems the broadcaster don't agree with you.

    In combination, they are not margional gains. Four-fold increase in resolution + significantly wider color gamuts + high dynamic range = a much better looking picture on sets that can handle UHD. Of course, it's up to the various stations to decide what level they will take advantage of under the new standard (as always).

    With H.265 encoding, the rule of thumb is that you can halve the HD bitrate to get the same picture quality. Undoubtedly, to get the best UHD picture possible, the bitrates will be higher, but not drastically higher, and again, it will depend on the regional broadcaster what level of quality they wish/can provide.

    Also, the massive disruption you speak of is overstated. ATSC 3 supports 3 video formats: Legacy SD, Interlaced HD, and Progressive Video. Legacy SD Video and Interlaced HD Video support frame rates up to 60 fps and can only use the Rec. 709 color space. Legacy SD Video and Interlaced HD Video are included for compatibility with existing content and can't use HDR, HFR, or WCG. So backward compatibility is built in.

    Legacy broadcast networks are in decline and will continue to be, with or without the change in broadcast standards. If anything, ATSC 3 is an attempt to for the broadcast networks to remain relevant in the ever changing demographic & technology landscape.
     
  20. stereoguy

    stereoguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn



    >>>>>>>Broadcast Television ISNT "fading from the public Perception". Tell that to a football fan.
     
  21. Splungeworthy

    Splungeworthy Forum Resident

    401k.
     
    supermd likes this.
  22. Vidiot

    Vidiot See It in Dolby Vision!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    That was my best laugh of the day -- thanks for that. Curved TV screens really are a crock.

    I get why some theaters go for it, just for silver screens optimized for 3D. But even for 3D, there's off-axis viewing problems and color purity issues with screens like this. I would always rather go for a flat white screen, because the light output is more even and the color is better (all other things being equal).

    Note that Netflix and Amazon are already providing 4K and HDR streaming capability to viewers who have enough bandwidth. When set-up correctly, it can work very effectively. Over-the-air 4K is very difficult.

    High dynamic range and wider color gamut really is a good idea, but I think both make calibration even more important for home viewers.
     
  23. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr.

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Is there a list out there of true 4K titles available on 4K blu-ray? I know anything from the pre-digital days issued on the format has the potential to be true 4K, but it depends if a new scan was done at 4K or not. I believe modern films are upscaled from 2K like 90+% of the time, right?
     
  24. ClausH

    ClausH Forum Resident

    Location:
    Horsens, Denmark
  25. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr.

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA

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