Considering Lennon was on record explicitly saying that she co-wrote the song and should have been credited, what makes you think he'd want to argue the fact?
I really doubt Lennon would change anything were he around today. In the 8-9 years he was alive after the song was made, he made no moves to change its authorship. More importantly, I doubt she "wrote" the song with John. The quote I'd read of his was that the "Imagine" concept came from Yoko. He may have said some of the phrases were hers too. A critical contribution, absolutely - but that's really inspiration, not songwriting. Did she write the formal lyrics? The melody? Chords? Musical arrangements? It all sounds like Lennon. Which I would assume is probably why it was credited as such. Same thing with McCartney: All those songs credited to Linda as well as Paul? I don't buy it. I'm sure Linda suggested ideas here and there to Paul. But I'd estimate 95%+ of the actual songwriting was Paul's. And that's the issue. In the wake of the Lennon/McCartney "divorce", they were both quick to defend and prop up their new partners as equals. And while that's nice, it's now 50 years later and pretty difficult to separate out their interest in defending their spouses, versus their spouses actual contributions. Especially since two of the people in question are unfortunately no longer with us.
Not to mention that it would likely be "iffy" at best that Yoko would even be in the picture now had John lived. It may have been John himself overseeing his archives.
In anticipation of this set, I'm listening to all my Lennon music (an ambitious task, what with some 84 hours of material!) Currently, I'm in the middle of the Imagine sessions. There's a weird sense of frustration that seems to hover over the proceedings. Like during Oh My Love, John snaps at the camera man for changing reels, although it seems like tensions are already a bit high for one reason or another. It's a bit difficult for me to put my finger on why it's like that, but it's definitely there. Maybe it's John's lack of control and ability. As far as lack of control, John is not the producer, letting old Phil Spector take the reins. This relationship would end in the mess that was the Oldies But Moldies sessions, and even the clips on Anthology show how dysfunctional their relationship was. John would go on to prove himself a capable producer with Nilsson's PussyCats and his own Walls And Bridges. And for ability, John's lack of technical ability seems to hinder him a bit in getting the musicians to understand what he wants. They are all great musicians, and once it all gels, it's great, but it's John's struggle to get to that point that seems to make the proceedings feel a bit uncomfortable. John was probably realizing that he no longer had Paul or George Martin who could basically read his mind. With this in mind, it's not surprising that John's next album would be straight up rock and roll, very easy and uncomplicated. And then all further albums would have significant demos, so that John already had some clear picture of what he wanted. I think John was about to humble himself a lot, both in his music and in his life. Imagine is made by a rich man sequestered in his big old mansion. I had some other thoughts, too. Like, when as Give Me Some Truth written? Very early in the Get Back sessions, Paul brings up the song to John, and they seem to be trying to recapture it, meaning they played it before. (they are discussing what key it was in and whether or not they used a capo.) When were they first playing this song together? I also forgot how much I like the outtakes of Jealous Guy with the Badfinger guitars up in the mix. And then there is the fact that even before the strings were added, these songs sound so full and perfect. The string arrangements then are quite inventive and add an extra layer to the music. Oh, and throughout the famous late 1970 piano demo session, John seems obsessed with the Mind Games chord progression, and it crops up again during the Oh My Love session, when John starts banging it out once more. I love that continuity. It seems to rear it's ugly head every few pages or so.
Has anyone made a list of what songs (to be included in the Imagine Deluxe set) have appeared previously --- say on the JL Anthology box set or some other officially released compilations? I know that Mike Carrera said that over 90% of this box set is UNRELEASED material, but I was looking to see which versions have already come out. Maybe this was posted way back in the thread, but I cannot find this info. Thanks in advance.
This is the sole reason I have made it a rule that I absolutely NEVER ever go to the theatre anymore.
I'm very jazzed about this coming out. I like how so much thought went into the presentation and content. I've owned Imagine in quad since 1973, of course I bought the lp….and the cassette....and the 8-track in 1971. It was played endlessly back in the day, in the car, it was everywhere. A bit obsessed there for a while. Like other fabs stuff I wore it out, haven't played it in years now...so a revisit on the deluxe side is welcome. The mixes on Lennon Legend I thought were terrific. I'd love to hear a surround mix of Double Fantasy without the shrill production of the stereo version.
I believe Mike said he'd do a comparison between what has previously been released (and bootlegged) eventually.
Maybe "Gimme Some Truth" is the surprise that the band jammed on during the White Album sessions that insider Mike hinted at in the White Album thread. That would fit the description Mike gives of it (not on the White album, released a few years later in different form, etc.) and also explain the dialog between John and Paul that was captured during the Let it Be sessions.... Of course a studio rendition of "Child of Nature" would fit that bill as well...
They certainly could have attempted it during the White Album sessions. There is no period between the White Album and the Get Back sessions where they were playing together (which maybe they should have, since they wound up spending a lot of time in Twickenham just learning how to play the songs!) The other possibility would be that Give Me Some Truth is even older, perhaps written in India. It's not much of a song when they did it at Twickenham, or at least they can't seem to recall it too well. Child Of Nature might be the more likely candidate though as far as what Mike was referring too. The band clearly know how the song goes when they break it out a few times (both at Twickenham and later Apple). It's almost too likely that they had toyed around with it before. How in the hell did I miss that? Most important post in the whole thread @mikecarrera
For example, here are the Imagine-related songs from the JL Anthology box set: "Imagine (take 1)" – 3:21 "Baby Please Don't Go" (Walter Ward) – 4:04 "Oh My Love" (John Lennon/Yoko Ono) – 2:53 "Jealous Guy" – 4:10 "How Do You Sleep?" – 5:20 "God Save Oz" (John Lennon/Yoko Ono) – 3:27 "Do the Oz" (John Lennon/Yoko Ono) – 3:08 "I Don't Want to Be a Soldier" – 5:20 Are any of these duplicated on the new Imagine Deluxe set? It was hard to decipher from that ultra-long list linked above.
Duplicates from Anthology, per that post by Mike: Imagine (Take 1) 03:25 RAW STUDIO OUTTAKES LIVE Also known as "Version 1" on bootlegs. The Anthology version lacks the final comment from John lasting five seconds less (3:20), while the bootleg version is complete and with the same length of 3:25. So nothing new, but it will be little longer than the Anthology version. How Do You Sleep? (Takes 5 & 6) 07:03 RAW STUDIO OUTTAKES LIVE Partially NEW- From First Session? (Takes 5 (a false start) and Take 6 are already on the Anthology boxed set, but Take 6 has a fadeout there, so we will get around 2 minutes more of unheard stuff). God Save Us (Original demo) 02:57 OUTTAKES Partially NEW (the version on bootleg runs only 2:00 so now we will get the full demo). A studio outtake with John’s lead vocal will also be available on CD 1/Blu Ray 1 under "Remixed Singles and Extras", which is the same version as on ‘Lennon Anthology’. Well (Baby Please Don't Go) 03:06 –EVOLUTION *BLU-RAY ONLY NEW A complete studio outtake will be available also on CD 1/Blu Ray 1 under "Remixed Singles and Extras", which is the same version as on ‘Lennon Anthology’.
I think what bugs people is that John elected to not make the change but SHE did. He never said he co-wrote it with her. He DID credit her on songs he actively co-wrote with her. She inspired it with her poem certainly but it's a Lennon song.
Based on the listing, I'd rather buy the expanded Skip Spence "Oar" ("Andoaragain"). I love "Imagine" and John but to me this is overkill. He wasn't the most prolific during this period compared to McCartney. If there were a whole bunch of originals I hadn't heard before, it might be a different story. Kudos though to the team for putting more discs in this deluxe than McCartney ever did in his.
There's also now video posted to the John Lennon YouTube channel - though it's currently Unlisted (I found it through NPR here).
Does anyone know how many hours of the Imagine sesssions were filmed? I’ve read 30 hours in one book and 60 hours in another . I hope it all goes up online one day on a website .
