Upgrade priority.... Cart or Cleaning machine?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by richbdd01, Jan 28, 2016.

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  1. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Get the Record Doctor for 200.00 and put the 300 you save towards the new cartridge. It works just as well as the okki or VPI 16.5 and is 300 to 400 dollars cheaper. That said a RCM will net you one of the biggest improvements you can get for the least money. It's not a miniscule improvement that you have to struggle to listen for, it is big. The reduction in surface noise alone makes it totally worth it.
     
  2. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
    I cant...they dont ship to uk, otherwise i would!
     
  3. OcdMan

    OcdMan Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    What other cartridges have you had on your current turntable setup? I'm concerned that either of your two new cartridge choices might be more of a lateral move from the DL-110 rather than a substantial upgrade. To my ears, my AT160ML is a good bit better than either the AT150MLX and 2M Black, yet it sounds almost exactly like my DL-110.
     
  4. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
    It depends on what table you're using as to how much upgrade potential you will realise in a new cart. The 2M black especially i think would be a big upgrade and many have advised me of that.
     
  5. Robert C

    Robert C Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    ??????

    The 2m Black is twice the price of the AT150. DON'T buy an RCM now, wait for the Pro-ject to come out. It's likely to be £100 cheaper than the Okki Nokki.

    Get a disco antistat to tide you over. Read my lengthy Amazon review which outlines how to use it properly. You can buy distilled water from Robert Dyas or your local pharmacist for like £5 for 5L.
     
  6. GyroSE

    GyroSE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    If I were you I would definitely go for a RCM like the Okki Nokki since you easily can keep your Denon cart up to 1500 or even 2000 hours running time if it's well maintained. You'll never regret getting a RCM.
     
    HiFi Guy 008 likes this.
  7. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Go RCM first. P.S. 2M Black overrated. OM 40 has a better stylus tip (a Fritz Gyger line contact, and is $300 cheaper)
     
  8. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    The 2m Black is a very detailed cart, it will not ignore dirt in a groove. To have this level of cart without an RCM is foolishness.
     
    russk, OcdMan, McLover and 2 others like this.
  9. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I used the Spin Clean for awhile, which I'm guessing the Knosti is pretty similar to. Even though the Spin Clean was great for what it does, the Vac-based RCM is better. I'm using the Squeaky Clean right now and have been testing out an enzyme based cleaner (AI #15) and the results are impressive. I would say that the fluid you use with the RCM is key though. If you are just using homebrew fluid, don't expect the same results you would get from a good enzyme record cleaner. The same goes for those overrated/overpriced "mild" record cleaning fluids that don't do a whole lot.
     
    Dennis0675 likes this.
  10. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    disagree, the vpi 16.5 is much easier to use ergonomically than the record doctor. the rd will work, but if you have a lot of records you want to clean, get the better machine.
     
    Heckto35, McLover and Dennis0675 like this.
  11. kcblair

    kcblair Forum Resident

    Location:
    Western Mass.
    I'd go with the RCM. Nice cartridges sound crappy on dirty records.
     
    Dennis0675 likes this.
  12. redchiro

    redchiro Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    See my moving sale ad in the classifieds. I have a wonderful Nitty Gritty 2.5fi that needs a home.
     
    Johnny Vinyl and Dennis0675 like this.
  13. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    The Spin Clean is great but doing a rinse cycle and then dying becomes such a chore that the RCM is money well spent. It also has the added benefit of doing a better job. A spin clean and RCM combo is nice if you really want to get after it.
     
    HiFi Guy, Tullman and Robert C like this.
  14. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I am using a 3 cycle process right now on my RCM. The RCM is more time/labor intensive (if I don't count the 1.5-2 hours I air-dry) because I have to let the enzyme fluid sit for 3-4 minutes on each side, vac it, then do two rinse cycles and vac each one of them. With the Spin Clean I used a one step process, 6 rotations on each side, then air dry. The results the RCM gives are better though.
     
  15. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    wow, you let a record air dry for 2 hours after it runs on an RCM? That is dedication.
     
  16. spaulding

    spaulding Hoi Polloi

    Location:
    The Windy City
    I tell people to get a record cleaning machine prior to anything else.
    It's part and parcel of starting to listen to records.
     
    HiFi Guy and Dennis0675 like this.
  17. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    No, I let it air dry for 1.5-2 hours when using the Spin Clean. With the RCM, I find 10-15 minutes to be adequate, though sometimes I wait longer if I am not in a rush to play the record or don't have time to play it right away.
     
    Dennis0675 likes this.
  18. Nice RCM....it's what I use! :)
     
    Dennis0675 likes this.
  19. OcdMan

    OcdMan Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    I definitely agree with that first sentence. I also realize that cartridge/tonearm matching plays a large role. I've heard the 2M Black and AT150MLX on multiple systems (some much more expensive than my own) and they always come up a little short against the AT160ML. Now, so does my DL-110 but not by much. Admittedly, my DL-110 was made within the past year and hand-selected for its tighter tolerances, so that might have something to do with it. A lot of people consider the Dynavector DV-20X2H a bigger jump in performance over these cartridges and is usually considered an excellent match for a Rega tonearm. For me, I'd pass on the Ortofon or AT and get a RCM and then save up for another cartridge. You'll need cleaner records with a 2M Black anyway because, as already mentioned in a number of threads, it's not very forgiving of surface noise. All IMO and so forth.
     
  20. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    By ergonomically you mean you don't have to expend a handful of calories spining your record by hand? They get exactly the same results with the biggest difference being you don't have to worry about the wand leaving solution on your record.
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  21. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    i just find it much easier and faster to wash a record well on the VPI. On the record doctor, it was messier, harder to get a good scrub etc. ymmv.
     
  22. G E

    G E Senior Member

    If stylus still good, get the RCM.

    Clean records sound better and your stylus will last longer
     
  23. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista

    Location:
    Texas
    No hesitation, RCM. The best one you can afford. All good things flow from quiet vinyl.
     
  24. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lakeland, FL
    I was waiting for the Pro-ject myself. Looks like it will be both different and more expensive here than originally indicated.

    Then I looked at the Okki Nokki. Lots of complaints regarding quality. I decided to call the US distributor to see if they had any B Stock units available. They never answered the phone. I decided to pass.

    I ended up purchasing a VPI 16.5 at a discount. I'm thinking after sales support will be excellent for parts/supplies (they've been making them for 3o years.) If it's good enough for the Library of Congress (they use the 17.5) it's good enough for me.

    But to answer your original question, buy the RCM before upgrading the cartridge. Clean records will sound far better and you will benefit from lower record and stylus wear as well.
     
  25. Adamski777

    Adamski777 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Ive got an OM40 and it was money very well spent, got a good deal from Thakker off eBay.
     
    Heckto35 and snorker like this.
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