Upgrading this year from a Dual cs5000 to a....

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Mazzy, Mar 17, 2013.

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  1. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    Bought my Dual cs 5000 brand new in 87 as I stared buying CDs. I had about 7000 plus LPs at the time (i was in the record biz) and eventually put the turntable away like many here and expanded my CD collection. In the mid 90s I sold off half my LPs. Several years ago I brought my TT out of retirement, got a new belt & stylis and it works like a charm, but it will soon be time to upgrade. I'm adding back to my vinyl collection too.

    I play all types of music and as I live In a house, I frequently play music Loud. Rock, Jazz, country and more. Have a Rotel system w/ B&W cm4 speakers and an X-LPS phono stage which I would love to keep and use if possible.

    The shallow side of me loves the looks of the Clearaudio tables. The Concept seems like a great package but I love the Performance more visually but not sure that I want to go for that higher price ( tell me why I should or should not). Also like the VPI Traveler. I know many here love Regas but they don't float my boat (told you I'm shallow).

    I know there are already many turntable posts and comparisons and suggestions, but here is yet another . Your thoughts, experiences, suggestions? Don't want to go used. Suggested Cartridge pairings with these also appreciated.

    image.jpg
     
  2. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Does it need to play when mounted on its side?

    If so, I think your only choice is to find the vintage Mitsubishi linear tracking turntable that you could mount vertically on the wall.

    :winkgrin:

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  3. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    Snarky bugger.
     
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  4. ElizabethH

    ElizabethH Forum Resident

    Location:
    SE Wisconsin,USA
    Well, unless you are spending $2,000 or more for the TT you are basically making a lateral move.
    The table you are interested in may sound slightly different, and you would have a new cart on it, but basically the performance is not going to be any better with that Clearaudio. So go right ahead and blow $$$ on a new TT.
    What i would suggest is keep the TT you have now, and buy a better cartridge.
    Though folks say the VPI Traveler is an upgrade... (i do not know) it may be hype.
     
  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Why are you changing tables?
     
  6. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    I've been considering the next move for awhile now since I've had this TT for 26 years and it sounds ok not great and I've recently have heard new combinations sounding better. So 26 years between turntables is too short a time ?

    You guys think this Dual w a better cartridge will sound as good as a concept or traveler ? Really ?
     
  7. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Not really, I preferred the Thorens TD 160 Mk II to the Dual CS 5000. No more money when new, the Thorens was much more upgradable and had a superior stock tonearm. The CS 5000 was a bargain in Europe, but pricey in the USA by comparison then. I like the CS 5000 even then. If it had been $100 less, it would have been a better bargain new.
     
  8. laughalot

    laughalot Forum Resident

    How much can you afford TT Cartridge Combo
     
  9. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    Well I'm thinking the 2k as in the clearaudio concept or vpi traveler but would the clearaudio performance plus cartridge make a huge difference if i decided to go there? I can't imagine my dual even w a better cartridge being an equivalent
     
  10. laughalot

    laughalot Forum Resident

    I would look at the Project 6 Perspex. It can also be ordered with a Balanced output connection (5 pin din). You then have the option of Din->RCA or Din-> XLR. (Cable supplied with Turntable) That would be useful if you ever decide to get a phono stage and or Pre/integrated with balanced input options.

    This is a no cost option from Project. It covers all Turntables that use their EVO arms.
     
  11. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    Keep the Dual. The tables you are mentioning are not going to be better. If it doesn't sound right, maybe spend the money to send it to Bill Neumann at fixmyduel and have it overhauled. Or trade it to him for a Duel idler drive. For somebody that likes to play music loud and likes some good thump those are really the tables to have. But yeah, that is a really good table and if it's running right, with the right cart, it should sound great.
     
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  12. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    Some friends suggest I move up to a new TT. I have a grado on it now but if I stayed with it what would I add? An ortofon? I'm am so conflicted.
     
  13. laughalot

    laughalot Forum Resident

    Which Grado?
     
  14. Dougr33

    Dougr33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    Sorry, but it's plain silly to suggest he can't get better sound than his Dual when willing to invest $2k. If YOU can't, then you need better equipment downstream. His stack is certainly capable of resolving more music, and he's already stated he's heard better, so his ears are working just fine.
     
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  15. DDDiscs

    DDDiscs Senior Member

    Location:
    NE NY
    I like my Traveler much better than my Thorens TD-125 with an SME 3009 arm. Although I am still using both, the Traveler has become my main table. I like the sound and the performance of the Traveler. I like the simplicity of being able to remove the arm in around 10 seconds and replace it in the same amount of time to change out the cartridge or stylus. Even simple things like the arm rest and the cuing work far better. Set up was a breeze. The belt is on the outside of the platter so it will be easy to put on another one if the one I have on it now ever breaks. It's been running between 6 and 16 hours a day since I got it around Thanksgiving. I play my music loud. I have an Adcom GFA555 and a Carver M-1.5t on two of my systems and they are always cranked up. Just my two cents. I am biased. Not so much because VPI personnel are dedicated, not because their tables are made in the USA, but because I like their stuff. Everything they make is built to last and works.
     
  16. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    Well that's YOUR opinion. I hear just fine. I have owned many tables over the course of 40 + years doing this. Currently have a VPI Scoutmaster with all the upgrades, and 3 pretty expensive carts to go along with it. I also own a Dual 1219 and a Garrard Lab 80 and some much less expensive carts to go along with them. And my, ahem, downstream equipment is just fine, not that its relevant to the discussion.The point is while the new tables he mentions are good, so his his Dual. In fact, it's very good. I happen to like the idler tables better but that's just me. Maybe he will like the new tables better but just because they're new and shiny doesn't make them better.

    And btw, I didn't notice a turntable in your profile. Do you own one?
     
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  17. Dougr33

    Dougr33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    Okay, that was a pretty dumb post, sorry. Didn't check your profile... I'm not with some of the vintage=modern equipment folks, but shouldn't have made that assumption here. Need more sleep. I've owned many tables thru the years (40 years is about my experience too), but gave up on vinyl awhile ago: clicks and pops at 33 1/3 can't keep a beat.
     
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I'm pretty much onboard with this post, as the table you have is pretty darned good to start with.

    Styli can make a ton of difference, so I'd probably advise saving some $$$ on the table purchase, and try upgrading the stylus, maybe.
     
  19. laughalot

    laughalot Forum Resident

    Me thinks like wise. The OP mentioned that he has a Grado Cartridge. If he moves up to one of the Reference series Cartridges eg Reference Sonata $600 or Reference Master $1000 he would get a huge sonic improvement, IMO more so than a new table with his old cartridge.
     
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  20. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    I replaced the stylus about 6 months ago with a grado gold at about $100.
     
  21. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
  22. laughalot

    laughalot Forum Resident

    Going to one of the wooden body Reference series Cartridges would be a huge improvement over the gold. (Keep the Gold as a back up) and you can always move it to a new table if that is the direction you decide to go later on.
     
  23. Mazzy

    Mazzy Sir Mazzy Thread Starter

    So it sounds like a grado reference master might be a good upgrade for now. Would that cart be appropriate on any of those new TTs later if and when I decide to move on? Or will I be so overjoyed with the new sound ( I know it might be subjective) that I spend the savings on more LPs? I do liike my X-LPS, any need to change that out ?
     
  24. laughalot

    laughalot Forum Resident

    Perfect if moved to a new table and fits with the X-LPS no problems. Output of the cartridge is 5mV.

    I am using the Reference Platinum, and am waiting delivery of the Statement Reference. The Reference Master is a Superb Cartridge and I am sure you wont be dissapointed with it.
     
  25. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Mazzy, I'm one of those who thinks that you owe yourself at least a listen to what a new turntable sounds like. It's hard for me to imagine that there have been no significant improvements in turntables in the past 26 years. Plus a turntable is a very mechanical device. Bearings wear. Gunk gets where it shouldn't. I'd like to own a Ferrari F40 but I'd love to own a new LaFerrari even more.

    Plus you should buy something new for the same reason you bought your Dual in 1987. You saw the death of vinyl coming and thought you should buy your last turntable. I thought the same thing myself back then. While I'd like to think that vinyl is back to stay, I intellectually know that its resurgence in public popularity is probably nothing more than a fad. Us old farts will still have our record collections in 20 years but if by then, your Dual, having close to 50 years on it, is truly worn out and parts are unavailable, you may not be able to buy a new turntable to replace it. I think this is a great time to buy a new turntable. This renaissance has brought us a new generation of analog equipment and I think it would be foolish to not get something to play another 26 years.

    Note I'm not saying get rid of your Dual. Keep it. If I remember, the CS5000 was an automatic turntable. I still use my B&O 8002. In fact, I probably play it more than my VPI Classic 2. I have them both hooked up into my system. The B&O both starts with the touch of a button and shuts off at the end of a record. What a concept! If I'm working around the house and want to listen to music, I use my B&O.

    If you can't borrow a Clearwater or a VPI from a local dealer for a weekend and mount your current cartridge on it, you could always get one from one of the Internet sales companies like Music Direct. While they won't take a return on a cartridge, they will take a return on a turntable. Hear what the change in the turntable alone makes in your system. That will tell you what you need to do.
     
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