Value of John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" LP on original IMPULSE?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Scott Wheeler, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. Batigol

    Batigol Active Member

    Location:
    New Haven CT. USA
    Could not be said any better. :edthumbs:
     
  2. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    ALS? Yes, my copy has 'van gelder' in the inner groove area. I have been rejecting any copy of original Impluse! with 'Bell sounds' logo. And I've seen RVG cut ALS quite some times.
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Please note that a much later RVG cut uses the Bell Sound dub tape.
     
  4. 51nocaster

    51nocaster Senior Member

    I just checked my original mono and stereo pressings of this record. Both have "Van Gelder" in the deadwax. I am listening to the mono as I type this and it sounds fantastic. To attempt to keep things honest, I will endeavor to do a comparison between the mono and the stereo copy (w/mono switch engaged) and see if I can hear a difference and report back.
     
    razorball likes this.
  5. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    Yeah, mine has orange/black label. A stereo pressing. (I've never appreciated mono Impulse!.)
     
  6. 51nocaster

    51nocaster Senior Member

    Perhaps this explains the love for the mono. By the time RVG used the Bell Sound dub tape, they had probably stopped pressing mono copies.
     
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Well, it's confusing. I mean, ALS is really the only Impulse album that needed recuts like that. ABC was very stingy with parts. I could never figure out the power struggle over ALS with the mastering back then. Still can't. My only guess is that after Coltrane's death the album was "reserviced".
     
  8. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    I'm not so sure but, if I remember correctly, I've read a story about the 'missing' master of ALS on the pages of TAS, which was written by FK or MF, when the DE was released.
    Has anyone read it?
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    There is no master for ALS, just the BELL SOUND tape marked STEREO MASTER which was a redub of the raw RVG two track tape. We know when something reached Bell Sound it was automatically redubbed and marked MASTER. The original tape (if lucky) was marked STEREO ORIGINAL and never used again. In the case of ALS the original (unfaded) was either sent back to RVG and he kept it or bulked erased it or it stayed at Bell Sound and was dumped when the studio trashed all the Del Shannon, Four Seasons, etc. original tapes it had.

    Perhaps RVG kept a safety or a British copy turned up. Who knows? If the album hadn't been popular the original RVG tape would have still been in use but ABC insisted (or BELL SOUND insisted) that the cutting tape have the correct fades on it, built right in. Hence the Bell Sound box marking: Master (meaning the tape to cut with on auto pilot).
     
  10. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    AFAIR, the article said that RVG had no copy and a Brit copy was found to make the DE.
     
  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host


    So, big deal. Same generation as the Bell Sound "master" copy.
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    BTW, the reason I'm not ecstatic over the old RVG Impulse (or any other) cuts from that era is the way he cut lacquers:

    Filtered the top end, filtered the low bottom, boosted the high bass and lower treble and compressed 2:1. Nothing like the tapes.

    Unless one is a real collector, there has to be a better representation of the actual session sound out there for this stuff. Why pay the big bucks for that false sound? (I know, collectors hate this kind of talk. Sacrilege!)
     
    jasonsouza77 and Robert C like this.
  13. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    I wonder if the copies with orange/black label with 'van gelder' stamp in the dead wax, were not cut from the session master (even with processing)? :confused:
     
  14. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    Sound just like the way he did for the BN original vinyls as you described in the forum.
     
  15. phallumontis

    phallumontis Active Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I started a thread pertaining to this LP and lots of people seemed to like the mono best. Interesting...I'd love to hear it but not spend too much money in doing so. Thanks for the tips, Steve.
     
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Find out. Get yourself a Bell Sound and compare the fades. The Van Gelder fade would be hand done during mastering. If it matches the Bell fade you know it's the same tape. If it's longer or different style fade you know it's the Van Gelder original tape.

    Remember though, Bell Sound (in my opinion) made a much better record. So, even though the RVG was cut with the true master the Bell Sound cut might sound better even if cut with a dub. They knew how to cut a tuneful record.

    Personally life is too short but I'm sure someone out there will do it..
     
    jasonsouza77 and phillyal1 like this.
  17. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    Please don't count me in. ;)
     
  18. Paul K

    Paul K Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    The Impulse reissue of this "mastered by Capitol" during the 90's...was this digital? Would the mastering have digital in the chain somewhere? I remember Steve mentioned that this was the case with Capitol...
     
  19. Cassius

    Cassius On The Beach

    Location:
    Lafayette, Co
    So from everything I have read, there is no perfect choice:

    If you have a stereo RVG press, you are good EXCEPT for the mastering decisions that Steve has outlined previously, which impact the sound.

    Bell Sounds are copy tapes, which presumably would have these mastering changes as well, and a copy, definitely not your best bet.

    The various CDs have been made with tapes that have suffered years of wear and probably were copies as well, although they wouldn't have had the RVG mastering.

    So ultimately you are stuck, like most situations we encounter here, finding what the most acceptable version you can track down/ or afford.

    In my case a stereo RVG in Vgish condition that plays great fits the bill, and didn't set me back more than $15 bucks.

    I have read lots of nice things about the SACD as well, and the effort that went into tracking down the tape that was used, but haven't quite gotten excited about buying my 5th digital copy of it.

    C
     
    Old Rusty likes this.
  20. TommyTunes

    TommyTunes Senior Member

    Anyone know anything about a Capitol Record Club issue from the sixties? It even has a Capitol number and prefix on the cover. It uses the Impulse label but clearly has the Capitol RC blurb on the label.
     
  21. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    The Capitol Record Club version was cut by Capitol at the Tower from eq'ed dub tapes a/la Bell Sound. The Bell Sound actually sounds OK to these ears. Never had a Van Gelder cutting to compare with.
     
  22. AaronW

    AaronW Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    None of the Impulse Capitol Record Club copies I've seen (with the orange/black label) were cut by RVG. I can't comment on the sound because if I don't see RVG in the deadwax of vintage records he recorded I always pass.
     
  23. Don't bother with the SACD in my opinion.

    I have it, but I like other CD versions much better, like the 1st Japanese pressing (32XD) for example.
     
  24. 51nocaster

    51nocaster Senior Member

    I had a mono version of the record you speak of and as mentioned above, it had Bell Sound in the deadwax. I only sold it because I also had a Van Gelder copy. I played it once and although I did not directly compare it to the RVG cut, it sounded very good.
     
  25. Mike in OR

    Mike in OR Through Middle-earth...onto Heart of The Sunrise

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    You can bet no misinformation from Steve, I really dig threads like this. Just like the Rumors thread that got bumped up recently that I had missed. Just more reasons why I dig this forum. :agree:
     

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