Vandersteen 5a comments and setup

I recently purchased a pair of Vandersteen 5a speakers. They sound great. I used to listen through a pair of AR3-a speakers. The low end of the 5as is every bit as warm as the ARs, but the low end extends flat all the way down to 20 Hz, and they keep going a little bit past that, too. The highs are extremely present when the recording demands that they are. Vocal sibilance and crash cymbals are so much more pronounced that I wonder if I need to make some minute adjustments.

Currently I have them about 7 feet away from me in an equilateral triangle setup, with the couch being in the center of the room and my head being 8 or 9 feet away from the back wall. The speakers are about a foot or less off the side walls, which isn't ideal, but that's as far away from the side walls as I'd like to get with my setup. I have the speakers toed in to where the drivers are directly firing at my ears. I have 8 washers installed in the back spike and none in the front two spikes, so the speakers are tilted forward quite a bit. I figure adjusting the tilt angle will increase or decrease my perception of treble.

Regardless, the treble from the 5as is a lot less pronounced than it was when I heard the Quatros in the Audio Concepts (Dallas) demo room. I have a lot more acoustic treatment in here than they had in there. Still, I find myself succumbing to the temptation to knock the treble knob down to 10 o'clock on my Schiit Loki, and sometimes I go as far as 9 or even 8.

I honestly can't believe some people call these speakers veiled or rolled off. They're ruler flat to 20 kHz, and pretty impressively balanced up to 30 kHz. My cats can now enjoy the ultrasonic noise of hi-res music when I listen to it.

To describe the sound of the speakers, I would like to avoid any of the usual audiophile musings like "air and weight" and "body" and "fine crystalline detail" or whatever. As my ears adjust to well-tempered audio reproduction, the benefits of these speakers become so much more apparent. Little things I thought I was missing from the ARs were actually distortions, or colorations. On good recordings, the rich timbre I perceived from the ARs comes through. Good symphony recordings sound great, and poor ones sound really bad. Even some recordings I previously thought were awful are improved. A little nudge of that treble knob goes a long way. A guilty pleasure of mine is to play modern rap music through them, and hear how suddenly my expensive hi-fi setup turns into a teenager's pickup truck, with thumpy bass kicks and long, sustained bass tones. "Humble" and "DNA" are fun romps when my friends come over and ask what my nice speakers can do.

All this long-winded nonsense to ask members of this forum, what are your experiences with owning Vandersteens? How do you perceive the treble extension versus other speakers? Do you feel like you're hearing the music as intended, or is something being added or subtracted?

 

Just off the top of my head, you seem awfully close (practically nearfield) to such a large speaker, considering how much room you have to move the couch back a bit. You may not be far enough back to let the drivers integrate. Crazy jealous about your new acquisition!!

 

I would like to keep my equilateral triangle setup going on, and if I move the couch any further back, I have to move the speakers equally as far apart to compensate. Isosceles triangles don't seem to immerse me as much.

 

Did you follow the manual and measure your ear height in the listening position and speaker distance for the number of washers? I would tilt them back if the tweeter is too prominent for you. Also check that you have the high pass set correctly for your amp and try the settings on either side of the recommended setting.

 

If the speakers seem treble bright, why use the tilt washers? It seems to me that they'd add to the issue, and not help tame the brightness? I'd probably use less toe in as well. Get a little more off axis. That should help too.

 

Won't going off axis reduce the clarity in the rest of the range?

I haven't gone down that rabbit hole yet, but I think I need to start getting serious about calculations and placement with these speakers.

 

Why the insistence on equilateral triangle? I agree with @Dougr33, you're too close to those speakers. Moving back at least one more foot should prove better coherence.

 

Not a placement issue, but are you bi-wiring like Richard Vandersteen recommends?

 

I don't have an amp capable of bi wiring, and even if I did, I don't believe in it.

 

You don't have an amp capable of bi-amping. When I listened to these I had about 11 ft space. They sounded like typical Vandersteens. Work with the set up. Take 'em off axis.

 

I only have extensive experience with the 1Cis, but they were far brighter than I expected. I had to trim the treble down by 1.5db and also noticed sibilance with some recordings.

You should definitely experiment with toe-in. As for equalization, I'd use the built-in treble and midrange trim pots before relying on the Loki.

I suspect that some consider Vandersteens as "veiled," because they're used to speakers that produce false detail through pumped up highs (Golden Ear comes to mind).

 

However, Richard Vandersteen, who builds, tests and sells speakers for a living for the last 30 plus years, does believe in it.

My Treo CTs are bi-wired.

 

You can bi-wire with any amp. We're not talking about biamping.

 

I bought a pair of Quartos from the same Dallas dealer you visited. They set them up for me. I assume you bought the 5As' used? I have never experienced even the slightest hint of brightness from the Quatro; either from the dealer demo or in my home. Vandersteen is pretty specific about the setup routine so this is probably the first place I would look to address this brightness....which seems to be the direction you are heading. In reading online about Vandersteen speakers, both before and after my purchase, I don't recall ever hearing any complaints about brightness..but of course that doesn't help you. As others have mentioned, Richard Vandersteen doesn't make recommendations for setup and cabling of his speakers casually. I think these factors do make a difference. Associated electronics may also be a factor. I suspect with patience you can get these speakers dialed in. You might also consider giving Vandersteen a call and see what they suggest.

 

It’s important that you read the manual and follow the setup instructions rigorously. 8 washers in the back and none in the front would be a very unusual setup for the 5A. This is almost certainly why you find them bright.

 

Oh, I thought bi wiring meant that an amp would have two output terminals, one for the low and one for the high. I am actually bi-wiring already and I didn't even realize.

The 5a only has controls for the bass and rear-firing tweeter. There are no pots for the midrange and front tweeter. Naturally, I have the rear tweeter completely disabled.

I found the Quatros to be quite bright during the demo at Audio Concepts, and those were obviously set up to Vandersteen's specifications. My own amateur setup in my own room is a lot less bright than the Quatros were in that room. I did buy these used. I don't think they're excessively bright, far from it, but they're definitely a lot brighter than what I'm used to. I think the response in this room with my ARs was so rolled off in the upper midrange and treble that there wasn't much going on at all above 10k. For years that's what I considered "natural."

It's really only pop and rock recordings I find bright. I always run symphony recordings without any tone control interference and they sound very lush and warm on the right recordings. They're sweet when they're told to be, not all the time like my ARs were.

 

This is what it looks like in here now. I'm going to do some adjustments to the toe-in and tilt.

 

Awesome Michael!

 

It's been several months and my opinion of these speakers has only improved. They really shine with classical, jazz, and electronic. I don't think there's another speaker that does more things well than these speakers.

Does anyone know why the Vandersteen Quatro review in Stereophile has a massive deficiency from the 100-400 Hz range? The reviewer commented that male vocals were thin as a result. My 5as are really full in that area.

 

I recently was looking at Vandy's (the 3a) and went through a discussion with Richard on bi-wiring, talked to previous owners, etc.... bottom line, plan on bi-wiring for best results, and you really don't need special wires, you can DIY it to start or just hook the bare wires to the terminal, then research which pre-wired cables you might want to get. There are many options....

 

Great speakers, congratulations! I'm lusting for a pair of Vandy Quatro Wood CT.
I've heard yours several times in a demo room near me. Stellar!

 

What exactly does tilting do to the sound? It seems like tilting them further down would be allowing the treble frequencies to arrive to my ears earlier, but that has had the opposite effect on me. I've got them tilted forward as far as they can physically go. I'd still like to remove a little treble from these speakers.

 

You are tilting to aim the tweeters at your ear height at listening position. Get that right, then add a little toe-in to take it off axis if they sound too bright. If you have many windows, some simple treatment will dramatically reduce the highs. You've also most likely got an adjustment if these options don't work.

 

Exactly. Somewhere between having the tweeters aimed directly at ear level and slightly above or slightly below will reveal adequate but not excessive treble. You can further refine with toe-in.

 

Tilt them back, not forward.