VHS titles that are superior to Blu ray?

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by alexpop, Oct 5, 2014.

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  1. Peter Pyle

    Peter Pyle Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario CAN
    One more time...thread title states: "VHS titles that are superior to Blu ray?"

    I'm not sure what else to tell you, bud. If you want to chat about Laserdiscs, then maybe we can go over to the "Laserdisc superior to Blu Ray" thread. But that's not what the OP asked. Should we talk about records, too?
     
  2. *drools*
     
  3. The documentary (and Richard Donner's commentary track, for that matter) might have provided a fascinating insight into just how much work the restoration team put in under Michael Thau's leadership, but the story was mostly one-sided. There was only a fleeting mention of the limited budget Donner and Thau had, which led to poor CGI, newly filmed shots and even material from older movies in the vault from being used to pad out the 75% or so of Superman II that was shot back in 1977/8 before Dick Lester took over, changing about half of its planned content to secure his name as sole director. Although vintage elements were used, there's no way Donner would have approved those jarring new space backgrounds if he'd been given more funds to complete his vision, plus it's been rumoured that he was only brought in later once Thau had already completed most of the 2006 cut. Also, from one scene to the next any footage of Marlon Brando lacks consistency in how the character of Jor-El was digitally added to scenes. On top of all this, the necessary remaining material filmed by Lester was edited in a way that would have been much better if a neutral party was involved.

    Most fans I've spoken with on the subject agree that Warner Brothers have every opportunity to still create a truly definitive version of II that incorporates the best ideas from both directors, preferably abandoning Donner's planned ending since this was already brought forward when the idea of concluding the first movie with a cliffhanger was dropped. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but someone known only as Selutron even pitched a more ambitious take on the very approach by recreating sequences that were never shot by Donner, such as having the Kryptonian villains land at Washington and be met with tanks - footage of this can be found on YouTube, although his complete vision has yet to be released (supposedly due to an agreement with Warners, who optioned his efforts for a possible future treatment). The fact remains that Michael Thau didn't just find himself in over his head financially, but as a result of just how much this project required to meet the demands of those who'd spent literally their whole lives in some cases looking at pictures online and hoping the footage would one day surface. When it did, their collective expectations simply were not satisfactorily met.

    For whatever reason, despite Superman Returns being a modest success and Man of Steel serving as the launch pad for a full-blown Justice League cinematic universe, Warners have little faith in the beloved Christopher Reeve era Superman series. The so-called Ultimate Collectors Edition DVD boxed set and its Blu-ray upgrade might offer quite a lot to newcomers and less hardcore enthusiasts, yet at the same time there's still plenty out there missing to keep the bootleggers in business. A truly definitive package has yet to happen, and that's without taking into consideration just how little they seemingly care about Supergirl, which many regard as a favourite guilty pleasure. Earlier today I learned that a documentary has been made about the Golan Globus partnership that produced Superman IV, with that film present in the trailer that I saw. Although I can fully appreciate that it's not for everyone, even this film surely deserves more than a bare bones treatment, especially when you look at how much was eventually found. Similarly, while many of the scenes deleted from their theatrical cuts were hardly earth-shattering, II and III still have plenty to offer the die-hard fans such as myself who don't know where the extended television versions can be found in great condition.

    If there genuinely is absolutely no hope of these films being expanded officially then like so many others I'll probably eventually consider asking around, though I'd rather not because I can imagine a really good multi-disc collection becoming indispensable, particularly if it features all of the various theatrical and international cuts, not to mention any director's cuts where these are applicable. Furthermore, it's about time that Supergirl was brought out from under the carpet and allowed to make the transition from multiple often hard to find standard definition editions to a single Blu-ray upgrade boasting all three known versions along with the wealth of bonus content that has been similarly spread across previous DVD releases. Additionally, if money wasn't seemingly a problem, it would be great if Warners could finally convince Bryan Singer to revisit his contribution to the Superman mythology with at least a commentary or retrospective to allow him an opportunity to set the record straight, as I'm convinced his original intentions were honourable, even if he previously stated that any respect for the character started and ended with the 1978 cinematic adventure.
     
  4. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I think it's a moot point because a) the entire movie isn't that good, and b) it's not going to make any money. I can totally see why, from a studio perspective, they didn't want to spend any more money on completing a version that won't break even on home video. Heck, as it is it's hard to get many studios to spend a minimum amount of money just mastering a title -- which I'd guess costs about $100K-$200K for a major A-list title -- let alone spending two or three times this to find all the trims, redo all the composites, and remake a 35-year-old marginal film. I think the new version is a historical curiosity, but not much more than that.
     
  5. Rocker

    Rocker Senior Member

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Only the theatrical version and director's cut are available on DVD.... the "special extended version", or whatever it was called, is still MIA.
     
  6. :doh:
    I totally read that wrong! In that case this should be a list of titles that basically uncut from their digital counterparts.
    John Lennon One -to One concert (since no digital version exist)
    Starsky and Hutch episodes uncut on VHS
    Takashi Miike's Agitator (full 180 min cut)
    There's a ton more...
     
  7. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    I forgot what you are referring to...
     
  8. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    That is true. There are a ton of titles that only came out on VHS and for whatever reason, fell through the cracks when DVD came in around 1997.

    I'm amazed that the 1980 British silent film documentary Hollywood has never come out on DVD -- only VHS and Laserdisc. I was told by the laserdisc distributor that they subsequently tried to renegotiate the rights with Thames TV, but for various reasons the deal never happened. There's also a bunch of films and TV shows that just sold poorly on VHS, so when DVD and Blu-ray came out, they fell by the wayside.
     
  9. Jimi Bat

    Jimi Bat Forum Resident

    Location:
    tx usa
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the impression that the original clamshell vhs of A Hard Days Night is the only place to get the original mono mix of the audio. I'm talking about songs, dialogue and foley effects.
     
  10. alfajim

    alfajim Forum Resident

    Location:
    san rafael ca
    IMO VHS is specialwhen the DVD or blu ray is transfered for the movies from TV with all the breakes for commercials in them were as a lot of the VHS tapes are not mabe not as good a picture but at least all the mivie is there and some times in the right aspect ratio and not"this film has been modified to fit the screen" bah!
     
  11. The newly-released 50th Anniversary Edition on Criterion in both blu-ray and DVD contains the very same mix you point out in lossless 24-bit digital audio...
     
  12. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    But it's from optical sound. The mag tracks for Hard Day's Night are long gone -- at least, for some of the film. I thought the mono sounded pretty harsh and overly-dynamic to me, kind of all over the place in level. To my ears, the 5.1 was a lot better balanced. And yet I often prefer the monos for the Beatles' music prior to about 1967-68.

    I think the original VHS of Hard Day's Night was the stereo mix supervised by Ron Furmanek in the 1980s; I can't recall if the mono mix went out at all on home video back then.
     
  13. kevintomb

    kevintomb Forum Resident

    The OP asks.....

    "Is there any?"

    After many told him no......some tried to offer other formats that had exclusive footage.

    Beyond that he never specifically stated he is trying to procure a title or exclude something better looking.

    Honestly, it seems to be a semi-joke thread.
     
  14. T'mershi Duween

    T'mershi Duween Forum Resident

    Location:
    Y'allywood
    Pretty much all 80's porn. You know, back when the girls were fairly attractive. :D
     
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  15. hi_watt

    hi_watt The Road Warrior

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    And the boxes were HUGE! Nice graphics though. :wiggle:
     
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  16. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr.

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Doesn't the original issue of Fantasia on VHS (and laser disc) contain Deems Taylor's original narration, whereas the BD does not?
     
  17. alfajim

    alfajim Forum Resident

    Location:
    san rafael ca
    Sorry for all the spelling errors.
     
  18. Dave Garrett

    Dave Garrett Senior Member

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    A few years ago, it was announced for DVD in the UK by Network. Among those familiar with the rights situation, there was general skepticism that the announcement would actually bear fruit, and sure enough it wound up being pulled from the release schedule shortly before it was due out.

    One of the greatest documentaries ever made, and its lack of general availability on home video is disgraceful. I still have way too many laserdiscs, but if I could only keep one, it would probably be the HOLLYWOOD box set.
     
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  19. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I have occasionally seen not-quite-legal DVDs up for sale on eBay. What's interesting to me is that 90% of the movies they're excerpting from are all silent movies, long since gone into the public domain. That means only the narration, new music, and new 1980s interviews have copyright problems... and you gotta wonder what the issue is, coming from a TV broadcast company.

    Typically the reason boils down to "somebody has an unrealistic idea on what their rights are worth" and is just asking for the moon and the stars, when at best all they could really get is a small moon.
     
  20. Dave Garrett

    Dave Garrett Senior Member

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I'd bet those eBay DVDs are all sourced from the VHS or LD sets.

    Brownlow himself has said that the roadblock to a DVD release is indeed the cost of relicensing all the film clips, so I don't think everything they used is PD. Also, when the series was originally produced, Thames Television just had Turner to work with for almost all of the material, but I assume they'd have to deal with Warner now, and you probably know more than anyone that the home video divisions of the majors now (what's left of them) are a lot different than they were thirty years ago.

    I could see Warner Archive partnering with Brownlow and Thames on a DVD set, as they've definitely got the experience and love of classic films that such a project would require.
     
  21. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits.... Thread Starter

    I believe BFI's Blu-ray "Here We Go Round The Mullberry Bush" is VHS sourced.
     
  22. Rocker

    Rocker Senior Member

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    But what about the cases the VHS tapes came in? :D
     
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  23. DreadPikathulhu

    DreadPikathulhu Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I picked up a box of VHS last week for $.25 each. Mostly obscure stuff. It is nice putting a movie in, pushing play, and not having to fiddle with subtitles, audio tracks, un-skippable warnings and trailers, menus that take forever to load and endlessly loop at high volume once they do, and trying to decide if it is worthwhile to dig into the bonus features.
     
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  24. Pinknik

    Pinknik Senior Member

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the case. And those were old 1970s composite standard-def transfers, not good.
     
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