Vintage system

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by tmsorosk, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. rl1856

    rl1856 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SC
    The 30 and 240 use the same output tubes and output transformers. Difference is primarily in the PS...the 30 is tube rectified. Many say these 2 (and the 225) are the best sounding Mac vintage amplifiers.
     
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  2. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    The 275 is supposed to be quite highly regarded as well ...
     
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  3. ronm

    ronm Forum Resident

    Location:
    southern colo.
    I run newer Yamaha(rxz9-rxv1) into vintage (70s)speakers.The clean power from the Yammies bring out the best in the vintage speakers.
     
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  4. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I don't really have any vintage speakers, i.e. those from the 60's and 70's. I would have thought those speakers may have somewhat soggy bass since Kevlar that lends much stiffness to the woofer was not yet invented ...
     
  5. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I stick mainly to vintage speakers because there's so little to go wrong inside them!
     
  6. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Because they are all passive speakers. But then, most speakers today are still passive speakers though active speakers are catching up with DAC and Bluetooth capabilities ...
     
  7. Dentdog

    Dentdog Active Member

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Gonna have to learn the ways of downloading photos and putting them out here. I kinda went for it in one fell swoop back in 2014, and "borrowed" the amps from a good friend. Gotta say the Macs don't have any downsides, and with a focus on tube selection give me all I need.
     
  8. I've got modern speakers hooked up to vintage Marantz receiver, but that is due to monetary constraints. I'm loving it much more than my Yamaha 5.1 system, which also consists of good speakers.
     
  9. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    I have both vintage and modern equipment. I am under the belief that they both play well together.
     
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  10. In addition to my 7.1 home theater system, I also have a second system with the heart of it being a Pioneer QX-949 quadraphonic receiver from the 70's. Also in that system is a Teac 4-channel r2r tape deck. The turntable in that system is only a few years old and is still in production, so it's not vintage, but I have used a radio station QRK turntable from the 60's-70's which wouldn't work well for quad. On my 7.1 system, I use a vintage Accutrac turntable from the 70's. My vintage quad system, playing through 4 JBL 2800's sounds superior to my 7.1 system. Other vintage receivers I've had in recent years always seemed to have a better sound than my newer ones.
    One thing I've noticed, since I have a large Moody Blues collection, I have different recorded formats. I have most of their 60's-70's albums on quad r2r tape. Recently, I bought several of the supposedly 5.1 SACD's from 2006. They are actually 4.0 and sound no better than the r2r quad versions(ofcourse playing on the respective for format systems, modern vs. vintage). I also have the 2 DTS DVD-A which were released and they sound superior to everything. I've always felt that the DVD-A was a superior format over a multi-channel SACD and have done several back to back comparisons. Most DVD players were capable of playing DVD-A's and other multi-channel music DVD's, but not all CD players can play an SACD or SACD multi-channel. The music multi-channel Blu-rays suck.
     
  11. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I actually mix my modern gears with my vintage gears ...
     
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  12. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    Same here, I'm modern at the source and vintage at the amp and speakers. The problem with mixing can be at the amp and speakers. New speakers are not generally designed for low power like most vintage amps are producing. I put a modern 200wpc SS amp to my Cornwalls and it was pretty ugly.
     
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  13. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    So your Klipsch Cornwalls do not produce nice sound with your modern SS amp at all?
     
  14. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    Not really. It was very, very loud and would make the windows rattle with ease but the top end was super bright if not schrill and the bass was bloated.

    The fisher 400 just has a much more natural and balanced presentation with gobs of sweetness in the mids.

    I ran it like that for about a week and feel like a relief when I turned it off.
     
  15. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I bet your Fisher amp or receiver is no more than 30 or 40 watts/ch. Back in the day, there were really no high power amps ...

    IIRC, you do not need more than 10 watts to drive those Cornwalls.
     
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  16. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    25 wpc on the fisher. The cornwalls are about 101 db sensitivity and it is a good volume but I would like to get it 40 tube watts. Sometimes the fisher gives up before I do with volume.
     
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  17. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Forum Resident

    Cornwall's and other legacy Klipsch speakers, do not mix well with SS amplification. They do mix well with tube amplification. Most average modern tower speakers have around 90-dB efficiency (the A7's are 103-dB). I think they sound fine with SS amps. Unless you have "audiophile" speakers that were designed with 2-channel stereo in mind, as opposed to HT, SS amps are not only perfectly fine but may be preferable, owing to their ability to handle large amounts of power.

    Today, I could not begin to even consider running SS through the Altec Lansing A7's. OUCH! It is tubes only. Currently, I have eight tube amplifiers and I only run them with vintage speakers, the A7's and the Wharfedale's (W60/W70/W90).

    A step up from the Fischer (and I have a 500C), is a PrimaLuna Prologue Five. PrimaLuna has introduced a new model of the Proglogue and Upscale Audio is selling the Five for $1099, new, with warranty.

    I have that amp hooked up to the A7's right now and it may be the best tube amplifier that I have ever hooked up to them. I have run the A7's with 3.9-watts up to 150-watts of tube powered amplification.

    The Prologue Five uses KT88 output tubes and is rated at 36-WPC. The vintage Scott 222-C is about 22-WPC and can drive the A7's quite loud, as can the Fisher 500C. The Prologue at 36-watts, is more power than I will ever need. The first day I lit it up, we sat and listened to different music for hours, and the sound was incredible.

    The A7's are only 2-dB more sensitive than the Cornwall's. At the 36-WPC for the Five, I had the A7's cranked to a solid average of 100-dB, and the sound was powerful and clear as a bell. I think this would work for your Cornwall's. I have not even cranked the Prologue all the way up. I know, that I don't really need more power than this.

    The thing is, some of the smaller tube amps, sound nicer than the more powerful SS sounding amps with the larger power tubes, driven hard.

    The Rogue Stereo 90, with four KT8's puts out 90-WPC in the Ultralinear mode. The Prologue is only asking the same type of tube to put out 36-watts per-channel, so they don't have to run nearly as hard and they will last longer, reducing your operating costs.

    You kinda need the larger output tubes for the additional power you want. But, sometimes, as the power goes up, you get farther away from the sound that you are looking for.

    The KT88's run at this lower power output sound like the smaller output tubes, less like the same KT88 run hard, to produce more power.

    Just some thoughts...
     
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  18. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    All good thoughts and very helpful. Honestly I'm as happy as I've ever been with my Fisher/Cornwall Combo. I don't really need more power, it would be nice to have but my biggest thing is I would like more aux inputs and a remote. I have what I think is a really nice preamp, a BAT VK-30 that is just collecting dust since I've moved to the Fisher as my main ride. If I can find a good pair of MC30's, I'll do that with the BAT. I was actually bidding on a MC240 last night and let it go.

    I've also found a ARC Classic 60 locally that is a very good price. I've got a couple places I can run the Fisher, including a front room of the house where I have a pair of Rogers LS3/5a's but I only have one place to put those Cornwalls.
     
  19. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I hear you. My house does not have any room for bulky speakers like the Cornwalls, La Scalas or Klipschorns ... :(
     
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  20. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    I have the VAC reissue of the Marantz 7C and a pair of VAC reissue Marantz 9's. These were commissioned to be exact replicas (although with improved 3 prong AC plugs) of the Marantz equipment from the 1960's. I believe that if these were put back into production that they'd sell quite a few of these reissues since the desire of audiophiles around the world has increased since the late 1990's when these were first made by VAC. They probably still have the various equipment to re-make these reissues, they should make a couple of thousand more of them.....
     
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  21. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    First loudspeakers don,t differentiate .
    They can be fed from an old tube amp or s modern super amp.
    If the tube amp was good years ago it will be good today. It all depends on maintenance.
    I have to say that since i retired and DIY
    became a way of life my audio has improved to the point of "perfection"
    I run 2 systems.
    I will describe one of them
    Thorens TD150 /SME 3009 /Shyre V15 MK3.
    Leak TL12+ and croft preamp
    Leak Sandwich Speakers
    Speaker cables are courtesy of TNT Audio and sre DIY.
    Most interconnects are home brewed .
    But for the last year i have used Amplifier Surgery(U. S. A.) cables as i love them to bits !
    A leak Troughline covers the Airwaves.
    The speakers are rewired. And X /Over
    Overhauled . The cabinets also rubbed down and re oiled. And are as new.
    Connections are now banana connectors.
    The term synergy is important her as this system is well balanced. Because if this it sounds superb.
    A lot different to OP Amp based Electronics with TID.(transient intermodulation Distortion.)
    More musical! I tend to
    Play till the early hours as its that good.
    It probably would not suit everyone!
     
  22. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    Speakers may not differentiate but 100w and more wasn't really a thing before the the mid 70's. There for speakers of that time and before were designed for amps with less than 100wpc.

    I find that many if not most modern speakers really do well with and are design for powerful amps. Not always but generally.
     
  23. Manimal

    Manimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern US
    I like vintage gear and modern speakers.
    I did a home audition with a modern integrated amp with a buddy ( and a member here) and both agreed the older amp sounded better.
    The newer amp was well reguarded enough for me to feel confident in my current setup.
    That's not to say a more expensive modern rig won't beat it.
     
  24. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    The newer amps are better than vintage amps is not a very convincing argument IMO. There really have not been that many changes in amp design since most still run Class AB. The argument for better material is also a weak one. At any rate, they have to make all those arguments in order to sell new gears ...
     
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  25. Hubert jan

    Hubert jan Active Member

    For me vintage means valve amplifiers with modest or no global feedback, be it PP, SE.
    Moderns means solid state and I can guarantee you it is artificially bright and tiresome because most run in Class B or a little AB causing transient intermodulation distortion because of crossover distortion and lots of necessary global feedback necessary for solid state power amps.
    Curious as I still am I listened to many solid state amps and even Class D digital but it never drove me away from the easy natural sound of valves, even if it is more troublesome to run them and expensive. When I walk into a store I immediate hear the lousy sound of solid state. But dont believe it, you have to hear it for yourself.
     

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