Vinyl--point of diminishing returns

I've been reading the vinyl vs. CD debates with a lot of interest, partly because I'm really anxious to get into vinyl (after hearing all the pro-vinyl propaganda over audiophile boards Right now, I'm using this crummy Technics automatic TT, that doesn't sound bad per se, but, I know there's better. So, right now I'm looking at a TT in the 500-700 dollar range. I've seen some for 50K, that's just insane. Someone stated that there is a bigger difference heard between basic TTs and audiophile TT, then budget CD players and audiophile models. So, when do the diminishing returns set in for vinyl?

 

I would just say it's more important to "test-drive" a model if possible, rather than solely using price as a point - regardless of whether or not this might go against some kind of preconceived audiophile notion.

Case in point. I used to own an "audiophile-approved" table that had more audible rumble and, most importantly, speed variations (wow and flutter AND spinning too slow) than my current cheaper model. I replaced the belt to no avail and then eventually gave up and sold it. My current model also sounds less "overdamped", and is a little fresher sounding than the more expensive table. I actually prefer the latter trait - some won't.

Brand names witheld to protect the innocent. : )

 

My turntable , arm ,cartridge and islotion combo retails for about 35,000. Still looking for the point of diminishing returns

 

Fair enough. I previously owned a Rega 2 with the stock arm. I currently own a Dual CS 431.

I'll just add, to be fair to Mr. Rega, that the Planar 2 had a very controlled, deep bass response. If the other things would have worked out...I'd probably still own it today.

 

I have a Music MMF-7 with the Goldring Eroica and a Phonomena stage. Total cost was $1,350. This is the best rig I have had so far to date! I love it! It is very musical sounding. I haven't played anything on it yet that I don't just love.

I had a Basis 1400 and a Benz Micro Glider 2 HO with a Creek OBH-8SE and found it to be too sterile and clinical sounding. Good bass, and accurate, but closed in and dead flat with highs and mids in my opinion. Adjutsing VTA didn't change things.

 

Coming from a point of knowing nothing about analog, can these problems that you speak of be altered or fixed by changing say the arm, cartridge, wiring, etc.?

 

returns....

Buying a mega dollar analog rig and placing it with a budget minded set of boxes and wires may not always produce great sound. The opposite may happen. It is often important to keep equipment quality levels in some balance.

 

$35,000, OUUUUCH! I could purchase another 3,500 to add to my 3,000+CD Collection. With some left to hire Steve to remaster a few favs for me.
Now that's passion.

 

I think Steve posted this a while back?

 

I said it retails for that much. I didn't say I payed that much. I love second hand. With 2,000 LPs to play on it I don't have a shortage of material.

 

Yea, But somebody did pay that much! LOL!

 

I don't thing so necessarily. My Linn Basik sounded much better than my old turntable through an Onkyo receiver and Cerwin Vega speakers. When I upgraded the rest, it sounded even better still. The signal will never be any better than it is coming out of your source, analog or digital. The rest of the system will simply reveal more or less of it.

 

I'm about 3/4 of a year overdue for purchasing my vinyl rig, and am interested in the MMF7. One thing that would hold me back with MMF is all the reports of poor workmanship, including woobly platters. The other alternative is the Rega P3.

 

I haven't had a noticeable problem with a wobbly platter. It appears to be rock solid and smooth.

I played my DCC Paul Simon LP last night (which is extremely quiet, good vinyl, well polished stampers) and got no more than -39db between songs from it with the tape hiss and rumble. Most LPs read in the -24~-35db range because of vinyl and stamper anomalies.

With the turntable motor on going through the Phonomena levels are -68db with no hum whatsoever. Very quiet indeed.

Like I said this is a sweet rig and in my opinion beat my $2500 Basis 1400, Benz-Micro Glider 2 HO and Creek OBH-8SE rig I had. I am sure the Basis/Benz would have sounded better through the Phonomena, but the Benz was not very musical to me.

The Phonomena is a Stereophile Class B Recommended component; the MMF-7 is on their Class C list if that has any meaning to you. Some like the list some don't.

 

like my cheap bic turntable

I have a bic 960 that does a real good job.no moter hum no rumble to speak of.I have a old pickering V-15 micro IV ame cartridge.the whole system only cost me 100 dollars.I use monster cable (300 mk II)interconnects.the turntable sounds wonderful

 

Hi,

I've been following this thread with great interest. I have over 800 vinyl lp's which I have collected over the last 40 years (I bought my first one when I was 7). I've never been wealthy enough for a high end TT but I have bought the best I could afford and I have always taken good care of my records. People who hear my vinyl are always amazed that they sound so good. My current TT'sare: a Technics SL-DD22 with an Audio Technica 331LP cartridge , and a Sony PS-LX350H with a Grado Prestige Blue cartridge. My point is that your ears should always be your guide when purchasing any audio equipment, if you like it that's all that matters. Proper care of your vinyl, making sure that you replace stylii before they are worn (I inspect mine frequently with a magnifier), will go a long way to preserving the sound of your records even if you have cheap equipment. I also agree that matching the quality of components is important: listening to a $35,000 turntable through a $1000 system is pointless, in all probability the distortion from the other electronics would mask any gains you would likely get from the TT.

 

One of the praises that keep coming up about the MMF-7 is it's black as night background. Very quiet, and still warm and musical sounding. I'd love to upgrade, but the funds just aren't in the bank yet.

I have the MMF-5. Pretty good, not bad but not great. I think the standard cart is the weakest link. Good sounding but not enough 'soul'.

Dan C

 

Go the cheap route until you're comfortable with vinyl and feel the need (and have the dollars) to upgrade. I have three turntables in my house, but the one i prefer at the moment is a Harman-Kardan belt-drive unit circa 1982 that i picked up for $15 at a thrift store and outfitted with a $100 AT cartridge. Serves my purposes just fine, thank you, and I think it sounds great.

I've never understood why someone just getting into vinyl feels the need to drop anywhere from $500-1000 (or more) just to see if they like it. There's so much more to the vinyl experience than just how it sounds that you should do an inexpensive "test drive" first.

Ray

 

Ray

I guess that was money well spent. If you ever get the upgrade urge I have a suggestion, the Aurios MIB 1.0. I got mine for 200 bucks and they made a world of improvement on my table (which was a bit more than 15 bucks). Your system will never out grow the the Aurios so it will also be money well spent.

 

Hi Scott,

How many did ya get for $200? I just got three Aurios MIB 1.2's for $330, is that a good price and what is the difference between the 1.0 & 1.2?

-Jeffrey

 

Yeah that's a good price for the 1.2s. The difference is the resonant frequency and the sensitivty to being level. The 1.0 have a resonant frequency of .5 hz and are a very sensitive to being level. the 1.2 have a resonant frequency of 1 hz and are far less sensitive to being level. I actually have both. I like the 1.0 much better under turntable and I like the 1.2 better under my preamp. They are both great though.