Vinyl Pops/Cracks/Static - At a bit of a loss here

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Diraan, Sep 15, 2017.

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  1. DigMyGroove

    DigMyGroove Forum Resident

    Will do.
     
  2. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    Yup. I call mine Okki Nokki.
     
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  3. Kristofa

    Kristofa Enthusiast of small convenient sound carrier units

    Location:
    usa
    I added a bamboo cutting board from IKEA with some 1" thick appliance vibration pads my father gave me to place under my Pro-Ject Xpression III, and it reduced surface noise/crackle quite a bit. Some LPs still have crackle, but I expect that due to the medium.
     
  4. Cockroach

    Cockroach Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    I'm not sure how well that works, but at the very least, your records will never have dandruff.

    Absolutely! Whether it's vinyl surface noise, tape hiss, or digital artifacts, you've got to be able to tolerate a little bit of imperfection.
     
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  5. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Where do you live? I can show you lots of vinyl pop and clicks free.
     
  6. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    I have no idea why it´s important to persist in convincing that records doesn´t have clicks, pops and noise. As I said previously, this is no big deal for me; since many years I´ve learned to listen through these anomalies.

    If You are interested in this, You can upload 5 minutes from a record, to start with; just a straight file directly from the record.
     
  7. Greg Carrier

    Greg Carrier Senior Member

    Location:
    Iowa City
    They do seem to be dandruff-free, with lots of body and shine.
     
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  8. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member


    It's impossible to diagnose this problem from afar. There can be many different sources of ticks and pops and crackle on any given record -- stuff embedded in the groove, stiction, groove damage , wet cleaning that leaves behind residue can cause a lot of crackle (that's why I favor relatively small amounts of an alcohol based cleaning solution -- quick evaporation -- and no air drying, and only wet clean when necessary).

    No way to know what's going on in this particular instance. Are the excessively noisy records new or used? Are you using the Zero stat correctly -- holding the record in free space, not placing it on the platter when you hit it with the ionizer? Squeezing slowly so there are no clicks? Doing it in multiple places on the record surface? Do you do the same thing to the felt platter matt on the Rega? (Frankly I'd probably replace the felt mat with somethink less prone to static charge)

    A very occasional tick or pop on a record --- because, I dunno, some small airborne dirt fell on the record during play or unbeknownst to you got lodge in a groove before play -- is not abnormal. Lots of continuous ticks and pops suggest a problem. I assume you're saying it's the latter you're experiencing?
     
  9. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Isolated clicks and the odd pop are pretty normal and par for the course. It's only an issue when they are more constant and intrusive, in my opinion. I can deal with the odd anomolies.... but if if keeps persisting throughout a track, it comes off and goes into my trade pile.
     
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  10. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    No you can't. Vinyl playback is a flat-out noisy medium. There's pretty high levels of mechanical noise from the record player itself -- motor vibration breakthrough and bearing rumble or whatever, the records themselves can be noisy -- either because of the nature of the vinyl formula or pressing flaws and just generally because the groove walls aren't perfectly smooth apart from groove wall modulations, and then on top of that you have other kinds of surface noise from dirt or dust or whatever.

    I know we spend a lot of time and money on our vinyl rigs to get the levels of mechanical noise as low as possible, but we can never get it to zero. It's never happened. You've never gone through a single record in one listening session with zero noise. I promise you. Now maybe your room is noisy or the rest of you playback gear is noisy, or something else is masking the noise. Or maybe you're flat out blissfully able to listen through the noise without it troubling you. But you've never heard zero noise from vinyl playback.

    Ticks and pops from debris on a record surface, sure, that you can get doing to something close to nil at least with new records, though at any random time a piece of something floating in the air could land on a playing record and result in a tick, unless you live in a semiconductor builder's or pharmaceutical manufacturer's sort of cleanroom.
     
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  11. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    There are lot of record conditioner/anti-stat/record lubricant products that have been on the market over the years, some involving tallow and other fat molecules (Gruv-Glide is a tallow molecule IIRC), which I'm sure do something similar to whatever record conditioning you're probably inadvertently doing with the shampoo. But with what you're using there's probably also perfumes and dyes and other kinds of crap that you don't need on the record. I'd probably skip the shampoo, and just clean with an alcohol based record cleaning solution, dry with a vacuum (but not air dry), and then, if you want to condition, try some Gruv-Glide (that at least is pretty easy to apply in a uniform manner and is effective and doesn't build up or gunk up a stylus, unlike some of the other record lubes I've tried)....but, whatever, if the shampoo and conditioner is working for you, go ahead.
     
  12. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Well, I drive a Hyundai Sonata, and frankly, it's a car that's engineered to be very quiet, it's pretty competitive with the Lexus sedans in that regard -- not generally as quiet, but not totally different league, and it would be even better if they put different tires on it out of the factory, especially over the last couple of model years; those two ares aren't a great comparison. The Lexus will be night and day quieter than, I dunno, a Camry or a Mazda 3. But the Sonata will be a lot quieter than those too.

    But I agree with you, some people coming to vinyl now for the first time either seem to have overly optimistic expectations or seem to be able to convince themselves that the medium is a lot quieter than it is, or, for whatever reason, they just don't hear the noise, some people are like that, my wife can listen to a car radio that's kind of struggling to latch on to a signal with almost as much noise in the signal as music, and I won't be able to take it, it will be so grating, and if I get in the car I have to shut it off.
     
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  13. Satrus

    Satrus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cork, Ireland
    All of the replies you have got here have merit. It may be your cartridge? Some undoubtedly accentuate surface noise. Just off the top of my head the Lyra range seems extraordinary in eliminating surface noise entirely. But they are really expensive.

    As regards your vinyl collection, was it played on primitive or very basic equipment in previous years? That could account for some of the problems you are experiencing but you should not be having problems with a wide range of records. Of course, there are badly manufactured records out there too.

    One thing that has 'dawned' on me only in the past 3 years is how good actually many vinyl records are. Have you ever tried an enzyme based cleaner to clean your records? If you have not then you should. Vinylzyme or Audio Intelligent products come to mind but I am sure there are others. I use the former and I find it remarkable. In 2014 I added ultrasonic cleaning and quite honestly have been stunned at what wet cleaning and ultrasonic cleaning can do for vinyl when used together. I had many noisy U.S. pressings that now play as quietly as records pressed in Germany or the Netherlands. For some reason, this works a treat on U.S. Vinyl especially but it benefits all vinyl that has been well maintained.

    I would take the OP's post and have a look at the cartridge for starters. I heard the Japanese DS-1 mc cartridge (not sure this is the correct model no.) at Munich in 2015 and I was struck by the amount of clicks and pops that were being generated by that demo. I felt like approaching the Japanese father and son design team and 'nicely' suggesting that maybe they should have a chat with the Klaudio and Audiodeske people who were showing their cleaners on the ground floor. Some cartridges are not ideal for quiet vinyl replay.

    When you have sorted out the cartridge which hopefully will provide an improvement, have a look at your cleaning regimen. Enzyme Cleaners are wonderful on all vinyl, new or used. If there is some noise that persists, take the records to a professional cleaning service that has ultrasonic cleaning capacity. That will prove whether it is a defect in the vinyl itself or some embedded dirt or impurity that wet cleaning cannot eliminate. You will be very surprised, even astonished at what you will (not) hear afterwards.

    I run a service here in Ireland and my customers are astonished at what my cleaning service does for their records. Many have told me that they sound better than when they were new after I have had them here. So don't give up over the frustration you are experiencing. I have been through all of that in my time too. Vinyl replay without noise is absolutely possible. My collection is almost noise free. Of course, it helps to avoid the 'bad' manufacturers. At this stage, we all know who they are so there is no need to mention them, by name, here.
     
  14. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    Here is plot from a good 'silent' groove compared with the needle lifted a couple of mms and the platter still spinning.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It´s really a tremendous difference.
     
  15. Diraan

    Diraan Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Well, this is a bit embarrassing. This is my first experience on this forum and I didn't quite realize how much attention my thread was getting - so I apologize for not updating a bit sooner. Thank you very much to everyone that offered solutions. Here we go:

    A few people have been asking about the records I was playing. All were brand new except for a used copy of Fleetwood Mac Rumours (which is in pretty decent condition). The worst offender, by far, was a soundtrack for a video game called Deus Ex, Human Revolution, which is pressed on a gold/black swirl clear vinyl.

    I've been able to remedy my situation by roughly 50% I'd say. My experience is still not nearly as clean as my Father's TT, which is a Pro-Ject 1Xpression Carbon Classic with a Denon MC Cart (not sure which - I think the 103R). He lives on the other side of the world, so I've been unable to try my vinyl copies out on his gear. I've picked his brain, but with the time difference it's been hard to get him on the phone for more than a few minutes. Here's what I've done and how it has affected my audio:

    1. I replaced my mat with an Auditorium 23 LP - this probably made the biggest difference so far, so I'd wager the felt mat was causing quite a bit of static issues. My friend loaned me his and after seeing the impact on my audio, told me to keep it for the time being. He's now in the running for best friend, but we'll see.

    2. I changed my cleaning to Tergikleen rinsing. I DIY'd a label-saver device and basically dunk the record in a bath of Tergikleen mixed with distilled water. I lightly brush the record in a circular motion with a MoFi felt brush. I then dunk the record in a basin of distilled water. Then I rinse the record with distilled water from a pressure-pump. Finally, I vacuum the record with a Lazy-Susan VinylVac setup. After it has fully dried, I put it into a MoFi sleeve.

    3. I use a zerostat 3 from Milty - I hadn't noticed a huge difference. One commenter (chervokas) mentioned using the gun while holding the record in the air. I had been doing it while the record was on the platter, so I'll change this right away.

    4. I brush the record with a Pro-ject carbon fiber brush before each play as well as use an Onzow Zerodust. I'm not sure how much of a difference this made, since I had been doing something similar beforehand. Still, I'll keep at it.

    5. I changed the tracking force from 1.75g to 1.85g - this actually showed a noticeable improvement not just in reduced noise, but just better sound quality over-all.

    6. I changed the Bias adjustment from the recommended setting (which is just under the '2') to just under the '1'. This didn't solve any noise problems, but it did balance out my channels.

    7. I used a protractor to check alignment, and to my eye it looks to be aligned. No change here.

    8. The capacitance setting/jumper on my pre-amp remains at 47pf which is what it defaults to when no jumper is present. Additionally, my gain remains at 40dB.

    9. I actually tried the 'wood glue' method on a particularly noisy record. I cleaned it as per the above protocol, then coated it with Titebond II. I let it set for ~16 hours and peeled it off. After getting rid of the static, I set it to play and noticed a pretty serious improvement. I'm not sure I'd try this on anything but a 'lost cause' record though.

    I've also considered upgrading my subplatter and platter to the groovetracer versions - but I won't consider those until I find out exactly what is going on. I don't want to throw money without understanding the issue at play.

    With the problems I'm still having, I beginning to think that there might be something wrong with my cart as many have suggested. I'm heading over to Audio Element tomorrow morning in Pasadena, CA to see if they can offer any insight. I'm pretty certain they have an ultrasonic cleaner, so I will bring a few records with me. Hopefully they can get to the bottom of this. I have absolutely no intention of abandoning vinyl as I absolutely love the sound. My Dad being a former diskjockey, I grew up with it in the house. The first time I really heard a record a few months ago, in at least 20+ years, I felt like I was a kid again.
     
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  16. Diraan

    Diraan Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Update: Well, Audio Element in Pasadena doesn't offer any sort of record cleaning service, which is confusing given the wording on their website. Does anyone know of any dealer/shop in the Los Angeles/Burbank/Glendale/etc. area that offers ultrasonic cleaning?
     
  17. AFCBRINGWOOD

    AFCBRINGWOOD Forum Resident

    Agreed. I've never heard a completely quiet LP either. When somebody says an LP is completely silent with no pops and clicks, I don't believe them. Either they aren't being honest or they've become so used to these sounds that they subconsciously don't hear it. I've been brought up on CDs so I hear the flaws every time. Really wish I didn't as it does my head in!
     
  18. frans callebaut

    frans callebaut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    aalst belgium
    hello,
    does anyone know of a unit(not a computer program or a disc cleaner or washer of any kind), which can be used (with excellent results of course) instead of a sweet
    vinyl sugar cube( which i can't afford, too expensive ).
    best regards,
    frans callebaut
     
  19. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Forum Resident

    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Not without a computer but ClickrepairRT works well.
     
  20. MackKnife

    MackKnife Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    IMHO .. Could be a residue issues. The cleaning solution used might be leaving behind a "residue" which leads to more frequent pop's, clicks and crackle than what one would expect (based on experience). Sometimes adding a rinse cycle (distilled or pure water) to your cleaning routine can help alleviate the problem based on my past experience.
     
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  21. theprivateer

    theprivateer Active Member

    Location:
    Singapore
    I used the Spin Clean for a long time not wanting to spend more. While it cleaned surface dirt from used records pretty decently, it never got rid of noise satisfactorily, sometimes added more to a new record. The system is inherently “dirty” vs a vacuum machine.

    Now I’ve upgraded to a cheap vacuum method (Okki Nokki style), noise is pretty much imperceptible unless the pressing is at fault. Many go on about the inherent noisiness of vinyl but imho many decent setups are pretty darn quiet, unless you use headphones and listen to classical.
     
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