Vinyl Thickness - 180 gram vs *standard* vinyl

This is the type of thing I am looking to accomplish with my set-up. Just slap something on the platter when thinner vinyl is in use...not monkeying with VTA adjustments at the tonearm.

 

Maybe somebody should start making interchangeable mat sets with audiophile quality materials, for use with 200g, 180g, 150g and Dynaflex, then sell them at ridiculously inflated prices through Music Direct and the like. I'd do it myself but I'm too lazy.

Another solution would be a single mat that can inflate or deflate adjust to different thicknesses using a remote control. Deluxe model would include an inboard sensor that could detect the weight of the vinyl and self-adjust accordingly.

OK maybe that 2d paragraph getting a bit silly. But as for the first, I am amazed that someone hasn't already done that. A high-priced tweak that would actually WORK!

 

Yep! just about anything will work, an old rubber mat, a thin cork mat, etc. I am with the opinion that the 180 gm records do not cause enough error to make any difference. There are greater vertical angle differences in how the lacquers were cut, the mastering engineer, record label, etc. A VTA that is just right for one record may not be just right for another, which has not much to do with the record thickness.

The VTA setting, anywhere from 15 degrees to 22 degrees is acceptable. (vintage vinyl prefers closer to 15 degrees) Not all records are going to play optimally at any one VTA setting. I largely ignore it, as long as I am close to 20 degrees.

 

Yeah. I tend to think that any warp, and nearly all records have some degree of a type of warp...98% of them..varies VTA anyway. Probably more than the difference between record thicknesses.

 

I'm sorry but differing vinyl thickness really isn't significant in terms of having to adjust VTA. The difference in arm height is miniscule and unlikely to have a major effect on sound. Just set for a mean thickness and forget about it. Relax and enjoy the music.

 

You can hear it depending on the cartridge- my old Lyra Titan i was extremely VTA sensitive. The arm I have enables easy on the fly adjustments with a very precise gauge for repeatability and a lock, so it's not a big deal to do, but the hard part is running back and forth between the listening spot and table to really nail it (though, depending on the record, it was even evident off-axis). Whether it is SRA or VTA or how the record was cut, I don't know. Thankfully, my current cartridges (Airtight) don't seem to be nearly as sensitive so it's pretty much set and forget.

 

i guess i have to repeat this earlier post. it's all geometry and it won't make a darn bit of difference in sound at the minute difference in VTA.

"Just for the record the math and RIAA dimension standards says that a 180gm LP is 0.73mm thicker than standard vinyl. A 0.73mm height difference across a 10" tonearm results in a change in VTA of 0.16 degrees. Less than 1/5 of a degree. We ain't hearing the difference here.
Set your VTA for the majority of your collection and listen away in good conscience."

 

agree. again, do the math. zero point one six degrees difference. you aint hearing that. period.

 

I'd settle for records that are actually flat. It quite laughable that a friction of a mm is
obsessed over when the tolerance of the record is nowhere near that flat.

 

Some of us use record clamps, so there is little if any warping once properly clamped.

And small tolerance are quite audible...have you ever mounted a cartridge for proper alignment?

 

LOL. Have you measured? You can't even see a fraction of 1 mm,
so how would you know if it's "properly clamped"?

Suggesting that cartridge alignment is the same thing is completely wrong.
The arm has bearings to allow it to move and follow the groove.
At least mine does, it moves both up and down, and side to side. #facepalm.

 

You were complaining because your vinyl isn't flat, flatten it with a record clamp...they work. Properly clamped, I have very little up and down movement...side to side - some, depending on if the record is properly centered or not.

I know it's not the SAME thing, but it's part of the same process. If you've ever used a cartridge alignment tool, you know that a precisely aligned cartridge can all but remove what many complain about in vinyl (mistracking, IGD, etc.). Then again, my Turntable is completely level as well...so perhaps I'm a bit more OCD than some here.

 

I'm not complaining that vinyl isn't flat, i was making the point that people discussing VTA assumes that vinyl is flat,
and that it's the accurate to a fraction of a mm all the way around. It's not.

I'd wager many table platters are NOT even perfectly flat, and that many bearings have play.

If you're going to obsess about tolerances so small, it's best to examine all your assumptions, or you miss the mark.
People can focus on the arm height all they want, but the fact is the record is going up and down, even with a clamp.

 

Anyhow...I thank those for their meaningful replies. I think I am on the right track here...gonna start with a 1MM mat and see what happens.

 

Next you're going to tell me you don't make adjustments for/take in to consideration the Coriolis effect when setting up a turntable.

 

That, plus also plate tectonics!

 

All these years, all these arms and nobody makes an automatic VTA. I think it could be done.

 

Surprised Nakamichi didn't come up with that when they designed their line of self-centering turntables.

 

They did, The Dragon has an auto-azimuth playback head, a nice feature for playing old tapes or commercial pre-recorded tapes.

 

I believe Townsend Audio (of Seismic Sink fame) in the UK did such an arm for a short time. Actually adjustable by remote control rather than self adjusting. Was very expensive and may have lacked sales.

 

^^^^^^ I am curious about their Front End Damping system. Very cool.

 

i have quite a few old rca dynaflex lp's and they sound just fine! i too was surprised how well they have held up
"hunky dory" anyone?

 

In my experience, these 180 gm pressings are just as prone to pressing defects as your typical 70s was. Maybe even more so. I never heard so much no-fill problems as I do with new pressings, and I've seen plenty that were warped like crazy....so I'm not seeing any real benefit.

 

I own 4 Nakamichi cassette decks including 2 Dragons, so this I'm aware of. But I was referring to their two computing turntables and the fact they didn't design an auto VTA tone arm (or one that would auto level the tone arm to the thickness of the record).