I'm seriously concidering the purchase of a VPI cleaning machine. Can anyone talk me into / out of spending the additional money on the 17? The auto fluid application is nice but hardly worth an extra $500.00. What does seem worthwhile is the bi-directional rotation. Can any one relate thier experiences with either machine?
I've used Disc Doctor, VPIs and Nitty Gritties before. I've not been as impressed (especially because of cost) than washing records in the sink with the funky method I do. I know it may not sound impressive, but getting a big vaccum machine...well... ya better have enough vinyl to make it worth it, and plan on buying a TON of used $4 vinyl up your street. Otherwize, you should never have to re-clean a well-kept new record.
Dave B, I would strongly encourage you to pass on the 17, and go with the 16.5. I have the 16.5, and enjoy the fact that I can control the amount of fluid, the pressure and type of scrubbing. I knew someone who had the 17, because they thought it would be easier, but it left them at the machine's mercy. In some ways I agree with Sckott. It depends on what you think you'll be spending, or have spent, on vinyl. >~1K I'd say go for it. It is without a doubt, the best audio purchase I have ever made. It can salvage a record purchased used, which was underpriced due to it looking like the condition is worse than it is. And it can sweeten a new record, by removing some of the film which is on from the pressing plant. In my case, I use it extensively, even with an already clean record. It seems as if the static is removed after I've cleaned it. I will say, from my experience, that while the DiscWasher stuff is good, the VPI 16.5 is in a whole other league. Kind of like a standard CD or LP, versus the DCC release. Buy the VPI concentrate, a gallon of distilled water, and 6 OZ of 100% pure Isopropyl Alcohol. Mix in the gallon of distilled water, after pouring some out of course, and you are ready to rock and roll. Good hunting... Tom H
Hey Dave, Please let me begin by saying I really have enjoyed your posts, especially the "lists" from years past. What a great thing to post! I have owned the 17 for about 3 years now, and without any regret, nonwithstanding the low WAF, of course. However, the 16.5 will probably serve your needs well. It is, without a doubt, leaps and bounds above hand cleaning. It has been one of the most valuable tools to help me really enjoy vinyl. I still use Disc Doctor and Last Power Cleaner and Preservative along with the VPI. Torumat works well with the VPI. Both models are built like a tank, and probably have been the industry standard for some time. Initially, I had doubts about laying out about $750. upon purchase, but it has proven to have been a shrewd investment many times over. It costs so much more now! I guess it really comes down to your investment in vinyl. If you have a substantial investment, then IMO (for what its worth) it may well be justified. I also HATE pops and scratches! What is the cost difference between the 16.5 and the 17? I am aware that the 17 has a fan, too. This helps if you are on some cleaning binge, or are professional, like Tom Port and clean many LPs consecutively, without pausing. I like the reverse function, and I do contend that it helps clean more thoroughly. But what do I know? Hope I helped somewhat. Bottom line: 16.5 is worth it; 17 may be, depending on your needs and preferences and the cost differential. Best of Luck Tristan
Dave, Don't waste your money on the VPI 17. Get the 16.5. You can't scrub dirty records with the fluid applicator/brush of VPI 17. Either one you buy, remember to put on a pair of ear plugs or something to protect the most precious components in your sound system. I have perfected my acrobatic act of flipping the vacuum switch with my foot while covering my ears with both hands.
Thanks everyone for your helpful advice. I ordered a 16.5 this morning. I also ordered a quart of Disc Doctor cleaning solution and the LP cleaning brushes to start with.
Paul Could you repeat what you said, I can't hear you, I'm cleaning some lp's with my VPI 16.5. Scott
Scott, Give it a try. If you're not flexible enough, try covering your ears with both feet while flipping the vacuum switch with your hand. Remember to wash you feet first with Disc Doctor.
Why should record cleaners be any different than gear??? The first thing you need to do is get something like the Black Mamba AC cord from Shunyata and slap that snake onto whatever VPI you buy. The mains cord allows the vacuum to get that last bit of grunge out of those precious grooves. Get the 16.5 and put $400 into the cord and you have a 'C' note leftover for dinner and a movie. Secondly, we tweakers at heart will appreciate this one. Many add a waffle/muffin/bagel fan to their 16.5s, so when they go on that 15 hour cleaning binge, the machine keeps up with the coffee slurping user. I have an email on how to do this if you're interested. The machine runs cooler just like its #17 big brother. Thirdly, when you're adding the toggle switch for that fan, you can wire up the 16.5 with a bi-directional toggle swtich which will, at the flip of that switch, allow your record to rotate in the opposite direction. Again, just like its big brother. So, we now have a $425 record cleaner, with a $400 AC cord and with another $20 worth of parts, you keep this baby cool as ice and it switch hits!!! Who could ask for anything more? Chris
Chris to you have instructions on doing these mods or a link to a web site that does? I probably wont't modify my 16.5 as soon as I get it but the fan and bi-directional switch are both changes I'd like to make some day.
Making the 16.5 a bi-dir/16.5F In addition to a bi-directional toggle switch, you need to mod the vacuum suction assembly, which has a >90 degree of freedom, to prevent it from swinging away from you when the platter rotates counter clockwise. Adding a cooling fan sure can allow non-stop vacuum cleaning. But you've got to stop sometime to smell the coffee, uh play the records. If the vacuum is overheated, I say it's time to rest your feet up and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Unless you manage to install a tube or other mechanism to discharge the waste fluid, you are running the risk of overflow. A cheap alternative for people with strong arms and back is to take the 16.5 to the bathroom, tilt it and let it spill into the toilet. But the underside may rot over time. The machine will last a long time and that underside board could be the first thing to go. Here's an idea. Take a shampoo dispenser, insert it into the waste tank through the vacuum hole then pump the fluid out into a basin. A wet vac can do it faster if you have the right adapter.
For cleaning fluid, you can make your own for a much cheaper price. Dilute 40 mL IPA (pure isopropyl alcohol or 2-propanol: never ever use rubbing alcohol as it contains mineral oil) into about half gallon of distilled water. Be sure the water is distilled and not deionized (DI water). You can buy distilled water at any drugstore for about 60 cents a gallon. Add three to five drops of Kodak Photo-Flo ($9 for 16 oz. or cheaper). This is a surfactant and it allows the cleaning solution to "wet" or "stick"to the vinyl, not just sit on it. Photo-flo is the key ingredient. Shake until the degassing stops. Then add the rest of the distilled water to make a gallon of cleaning fluid. You can adjust the amount of IPA to your liking, but don't exceed 10%. Too much IPA and other alcohols will leach the plasticizers from the vinyl. Bad news. Total cost per gallon is about $1.00. IPA can be bought from Aldrich, VWR or paint and hardware stores. Photo-flo can be bought from any camera shop. 16 oz. will last a lifetime. Share the Photo-flo with friends and family.
