VPI Avenger turntable with Grado Labs Epoch cartridge. My mini-review is here, post #296..

Norman Blake (2) / Tut Taylor / Sam Bush / Butch Robins / Vassar Clements / David Holland* / Jethro Burns - Norman Blake / Tut Taylor / Sam Bush / Butch Robins / Vassar Clements / David Holland / Jethro Burns

 

I'm with you.

 

LOL you beat me to it, I was going to recommend them as well. I just bought one from discogs (near mint) for $23.53.

 

I wondered who beat me to it. I did manage to get one in great shape elsewhere.

 

Yes, I think I'm at that point where it is smaller incremental sound upgrades from here on out. That Avenger is stunning to look at though! Thank you for your thoughts.

 

Great guy. I was crying about them taking a long time to get a very minor part sent out and he called me personally about 15 minutes after I sent an email, late in the evening, apologized and got it out. I just got it a couple days ago. I think they got me for life and deservedly so. I love the Prime. Looks lovely and sounds even better.

 

Make that three of us.

Mat has hinted about a new generation of turntables in the works and maybe they'd have enough of a performance jump for me to change. Otherwise, considering I've stepped up my Classic2's arm to the 3D one, added the SDS and improved my isolation, I'm very content.

The Avenger interests me for its styling and the multiple tonearms. I've always wanted a turntable with two or even three arms. I could see an arm with a balls-to-the-wall MC set-up, a second one with a MM cartridge for extra lushness, and a third arm with a mono cartridge.

I know there are better sounding turntables than my Classic2 but for what price? Even my fantasy three armed Avenger, with all those arms, cartridges, phono stages and cables, would easily be a $20K set-up. Now that would sting!

 

That's the rub. How much more of less can we get? I think I've got a lot of nothing right now. What's the cost for an even greater inaudibility?

Here lies Mat's dilemma for the next generation of VPI tables. He's got to make them add even less of their own sound to the music. That will be a challenge.

 

I’ve got all the nothing I can afford.

 

I bought my first high end turntable, a VPI HW-19 Mk. 1, before Mat was born, when VPI was not yet well known. I still have it (slowly upgraded to Mk. 4, as each new improvement was introduced), plus have accumulated more, with different arms and carts on each: a Mk 3, another Mk. 4, and a Mk 4 with full TNT upgrades. Two of them have SAMA (separate motor). I am so content with them, that I just haven't felt a need for anything newer. My arms and carts keep getting more expensive, but the HW-19 seems to be sufficient for the highest of associated components. And I do own other turntables, too, that were considerably more expensive. VPI has always made innovative, and precision made products.

No matter which VPI any of us may own, we seem to like it VERY much.

Sometimes, in the hobby of high-end audio, you just don't ever have to "upgrade", because you chose just what you needed the first time, to last a lifetime. VPI, I think, could be a prime (no pun intended) example, for many of us.

 

This reminds me of how the HW-19 kept improving, from the time I bought the very first generation. VPI kept developing improvements, one by one. About once a month, I would call Mike there, and ask "what's new for my turntable". Every time, the new idea made sense, and I wanted it. It was exciting to receive the new item in the mail, and install it, from little Delrin tip-toes that glued onto the suspension caps, to SAMA motors and different platters. Even different belts, springs, motor spindles, and platter bearings. Luckily, at that time, they were not that expensive, like they would be now.

The first version HW-19 was just fine, so I would have been perfectly happy leaving it that way. But as a mechanical engineer, I loved the constant evolution.

 

I finally understood that when I went to the Prime from the Technics mk1200. When I saw all the engineering that went into this, and then the arm is just sitting on a pointed pivot, your point was made quite clear. The arm is very close to not even connected to the table at all. Quite an amazing feat of engineering. These are things I never would have learned had I not found this place and learned so much from all the good folks here. I thought I enjoyed listening to my records before. Now I can't believe how much I wasn't even hearing or noticing, and that was from a solid medium quality system. Many thanks for starting up this place, which allows us to enrich our lives so much more listening to music we love. Look forward to reading your thoughts after your new cart is installed.

 

I don't think a lot of us really understand that until you actually acquire a table that is closer to what you are describing and then listen to things you are very familiar with. That is something that is hard to put into words, so you try and get a vision for it when it's described but how can you when it's really something you have to "hear", or perhaps the word "experience" is more appropriate. You hear descriptions like "blacker blacks" around here. Huh? I didn't really have a clue what that mean't until I got the Prime table. Now I understand. From a marketing standpoint, this must be very difficult to explain. So, I put a lot of faith into a few people around here that post a lot and that was what compelled me to take a chance. And now I get it. It must be very hard for you to know what things are supposed to sound like, and then you happen to hear something you worked hard on playing at a tradeshow, or whereever, and it sounds nothing like the master. That would drive me nuts. Anyway, I hope your table is getting you close. It's amazing how much has to be right before you get optimized sound. It's almost a miracle when it gets there.

 

I have a search on eBay for HDS 701. You could precede that by Flying Fish. Just found two tonight.

 

I was able to find time and concentrate on using the Flying Fish record to dial in VTA. At first attempt I was a little worried as I wasn't hearing it very well and decided I should try again later. Well this time around I set a wide range and started dwindling it closer to the best point and it's fairly easy to hear. I could tell I was getting it right once I found that little area where the bass is full while keeping the snap of the string. I think I got it for now! I'm not able to make the most precise VTA changes but believe I got it within 0.5mm. Probably could play around some more and get it tighter. Happy for now. Thanks for sharing this method.

 

I'm not sure if this detail made it into the thread or not, but did the arm on the Avenger have the dual pivot attachment? Just curious, thanks.

 

Yes, new Avengers do come with this feature. They work great.

 

Steve, did your Avenger come with the Nordost wire upgrade?

 

"A true Zen saying: Nothing is what I want."

-Frank Zappa

 

Judging by his pics he has the standard tonearm wire.

If the tonearm wire is twisted it is standard, if it is braided its the Nordost.

 

That's true of the older Nordost wire. The latest Nordost Reference wire looks a great deal like the discovery (standard) wire.

 

Yes, they are the same color.