VPI Avenger turntable with Grado Labs Epoch cartridge. My mini-review is here, post #296..

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Steve Hoffman, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. Given the current shortage of the noted Holland LP, I'm going to play with a couple of Flying Fish records I have on hand, most notably a couple of Telecaster Players.. Amos Garrett "Go Cat Go" and Arlen Roth "Lonely St." Off hand, I'm not sure if there's anything as easily identifiable as the bass track discussed, but I'm overdue for a listen to these anyway.
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Update, Marc at VPI sez the second tonearm will be shipped to me soon with both the standard counterweight and the special, heavier counterweight for the GRADO LABS REFERENCE series cartridges. This will enable me to complete my review of the AVENGER Standard turntable.

    Looking forward to it.
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Over the weekend I had the KING of Cartridge Setup DAVID SHREVE over to check things out on the VPI and spin some platters. In other words, a friend came over and we played records, just like I used to do in 1970. Always great having Dave over, he brings the vinyl with him and he tweaks until he is happy.

    And when he is happy, I'm happy..
    vpi dave.jpg vpi dave two.jpg
     
  4. What records does he keep in his "vinyl Swiss Army knife" Steve?
     
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    David always brings a big box of goodies, usually 1/2 classical, some jazz and some pop stuff. I was in a classical mood on Sunday so we concentrated on that. Hearing performances unfamiliar to me is a treat.

    I discovered Dennis Brain. THE British horn player of the 20th century, died young, was on Columbia. Never had heard of him before but my God, he was amazing.

    I got this. Thanks, Dave!

    dennis brain.jpg
     
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  6. gov

    gov Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Metro
    what's better than that?
     
  7. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    The new fatboy design was at Axpona. What I like is a more sculpted shape and a pretty steel and black rubber counterweight that is a nice blend of the stainless steel and solid black look on the rest of the arm.
     
  8. psulioninks

    psulioninks Forum Resident

    Location:
    KC Chiefs Kingdom
    "The back of the arm is now threaded, allowing much more accurate adjustments and the ability to easily lock the counterweight. No more messing with a counterweight that slides along the back for fine adjustments."

    Glad to see they took a cue from SME and went with a threaded end design - this type of system is soooo much easier to use than those requiring you to lock the counterweight in place by means of a thumb screw.
     
  9. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    How awesome for me to see some semblance of my table at your house! I have a Prime, of course a few notches down from your's, and I just absolutely love it. The forum folks here recommended a Soundsmith Zephyr III cartridge (among others of course) which I understand is on the VPI "approved" recommendation list and I installed it last week. Nothing like what you have I'm sure, but boy am I loving it! The right cartridge, and installing it correctly, is everything, eh? VPI's "how to" set up youtube video is such an invaluable tool. Kudos to them for such a useful tool. I just don't do instructions well...video is exactly what I need! I've had to install five cartridges since buying the table last year trying to figure out what works best and now, at last, I'm there! I can't see ever going to another brand table; they have been terrific. Exctied to read your post after you have it all set up.
     
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Glad you are "happenin'" now. Didn't know they had a video instruction book. That's a good thing. Getting the best setup is one of the keys to having great sounding vinyl playback.
     
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  11. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    That LP of the Mozart Horn Concertos 1 through 4 from 1953 is the recording that (mostly) made him famous outside Britain - and is considered to be the definitive version. Not a big von Karajan fan but this is a stellar orchestra and recording. I always liked Barry Tuckwell's (well, he was an Aussie) version before I heard Dennis Brain.

    Sadly, what many remember was him crashing his Triumph TR2 into a tree. This happened in Hatfield, outside the De Havilland aircraft factory. I did some work a couple of years ago for Pitney Bowes, whose UK head office is at the old De Havilland site. I am not sure I saw the exact tree that Dennis crashed into (OK, I know I did not), but my thoughts did turn to remembrances. He was a superstar, born into a family of top notch horn players; destined for greatness; and unfortunately, lost.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
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  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    No idea how he escaped my attention all these years but no more.
     
  13. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    Go to youtube and enter VPI installation. They unpack the table and set it up. And it moves along fast...my kind of installation instruction! It is only around 12 minutes and it assures one doesn't forget any steps. It is very customer friendly....they know it can be intimidating and they try hard (and succeed) in giving you the confidence to complete the job accurately. I never would have figured it out using the supplied instructions...no offense to them, I just struggle with that sort of thing. I sure understand why you like to use an expert. My first time installation wasn't very good but with this fifth installation and their video, I know I nailed it and my ears confirm it. If I buy another table it will be a VPI upgrade. Sure love yours! Thanks for including us in the set up journey.
     
  14. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    You're welcome. Glad they have that video stuff. These are not exactly plug in and play.
     
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  15. Tim Glover

    Tim Glover Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Monroe, LA
    From someone who has the VPI Classic Signature I have that upgraditus bug! Really looking forward to reading Steve's in depth review. The Avenger is on my 'maybe to buy' list :)
     
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Second tonearm for the VPI Avenger is coming here soon, shipped today. Looking forward to it!
     
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  17. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    I assume your good friend will come back and install the arm and cartridge for you? Hope he can come quickly. Look forward to your comments. You sure are patient!
     
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Patient? It’s a freebie. Actual sales should come first in any business.
     
  19. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    Well, that would admittedly improve my patience by a significant margin too! Still, must be exciting. You’re likely going to love it.
     
  20. Tim Glover

    Tim Glover Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Monroe, LA
    Eager to read your take on the Avenger Steve. Its on my 'maybe to buy list" :) Currently have a Classic Sig.
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I can write a quick little review of my VPI Avenger right now, actually. I've lived with it since last December or so.

    The VPI Avenger that I have is the standard version. The price was $10,000.00 the last time I looked.

    Mat of VPI sent it to me when asked, simply so I could have a good table to review the Grado Labs Epoch cartridge (which costs more than the actual turntable.)

    At 10k, the Avenger isn't cheap. I have a VPI Classic 2 that I have been using since 2015 and even though I usually don't compare, in this case, I will.

    The fine Classic 2 is slightly warmer in character, less authoritative, but very musical sounding.

    The Avenger is more neutral, gets out of the way of the music by having NO sound of its own, the supreme goal in this top line vinyl playback world.

    The Avenger is about getting everything out of the record that is being played with no editorializing and no compromising. It is also (obviously) going to depend on what cartridge you use with it. That is crucial. It will reproduce the sound of the record and the cartridge exactly so watch out. Pick a good cart, pick a musical cart, pick a cart that you can live with for a long, long time.

    I like the build quality of the Avenger. I like the looks as well. It's not too "over the top" in looks, it's not all chromed out or fake gold plated like some others I've seen. It does call to me to play records, much more than my Classic 2 table does, that's for sure. It sits there and says "PLAY ME, DUDE" so I usually obey.

    I have found, thanks to VTA genius David Shreve, that the easiest way to work the table/arm with many different pressing thicknesses is to set the VTA for an average and then leave it. Then, change VTA by inserting varying thicknesses of paper under the mat for each pressing variation. It's not hard, I have the average, the RCA-Living Stereo, the old Columbia, the 180 gram all written down and it's a snap to insert or remove these thin pieces of paper. Much better than using the VTA adjustment on the arm, much better to leave it be, more accurate.

    So, anything else you want to know? Is it worth $10,000.00? I think so, yes. It's quite lovely looking and lovely sounding and is a real big boy table and arm. Records sound fantastic on it and that's the heart of the matter.
     
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  22. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    Until I got my Prime, I had no idea what you guys were talking about when I read terms like “blacker blacks” and “getting out of the way of the music”. I got it almost immediately when I heard the Prime, moving from a Technics MK1200. And, of course, the Avenger should and does sound better according to your experience. I really can’t imagine getting another brand table now, and if I ever need a second table I will upgrade but stay with VPI and move the Prime into my secondary set up. And yes, the cartridge is critical with that arm in my experience as well. I had to buy four before I finally found one I liked. I’m impulsive and should have done more research. For me, it was the Soundsmith Zephyr, which is recommended by VPI. No “break in” needed...it popped right out of the box! Was nice reading your thoughts...thanks! I’m always curious what you get when you approach “as good as it gets” territory.
     
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  23. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    If you set the VTA for “average” what do you do when you have a thicker than average pressing? Do you remove the mat?
     
  24. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The way Dave Shreve did it on mine, the "average" is set using trusty HDS-701 (as talked about at length elsewhere, probably on my Grado Epoch review thread, etc.) and finding the setting where the bass "snaps into place" using the VTA adjustment on the VPI arm.

    In my case, the optimum for this "average" record is: Construction (thick) paper under felt mat. That's my average.

    180 gram records, just the felt mat.

    RCA-Victor Living Stereos I thin paper under felt mat.

    DG German pressings, 2 thin paper under felt mat.

    London, English Decca, Philips, Nonesuch, I thin paper, 1 thick paper under felt mat.

    Columbia classical, 2 thin paper, I thick paper under felt mat.

    And so on.

    To lower VTA, just add more stuff under the mat.

    It sounds terribly confusing but if you know what to listen for, it is really a snap. But getting HDS-701 dialed in is crucial to find your average. Better than using the control on the tonearm. We feel it doesn't always go back to the exact same spot every time. This way is foolproof.

    It seems clumsy and dumb but it really works, is easily done and once you know what to listen for, you can make your own discoveries about VTA.

    Make sense or gibberish?

    This is HDS-701:

    Norman Blake (2) / Tut Taylor / Sam Bush / Butch Robins / Vassar Clements / David Holland* / Jethro Burns - Norman Blake / Tut Taylor / Sam Bush / Butch Robins / Vassar Clements / David Holland / Jethro Burns

    Track 2, the bass solo intro. Listen for even tone between the top and bottom notes, a nice snap of an acoustic instrument and a realistic finger technique. At first you won't be able to hear a difference when you change VTA but soon, in a nice quiet room, you'll be able to train your ears to hear a real obvious different just by inserting a thin piece of paper under the felt mat. Once you've got it, you've got it for everything.
     
  25. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Steve, thanks for the review. What you said supports my feelings of the Avenger. The Avenger is my third VPI TT. I already had the SDS speed controller, a periphery ring, center weight, and an HRX pulley, so it was an easy decision to upgrade to another VPI. I believe these accessories improve the performance of the Avenger.

    The build quality of the Avenger is a few of notches up from the Prime, especially the motor. I ordered my Avenger with the Nordost wire and reference feet. When ordering with those options I was charged the difference for those options. In other words, I was given credit for the cost of the standard options and not required to pay the full cost of the upgrade, as I would have if I waited to add them at a later time. I can't to speak to the improvement of those options as I have never heard the Avenger without them. I can say the Avenger's performance is much better than the Prime, and as you say the Avenger is a big boy TT.
     

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