Waco: The TV Show (Soon to be a Musical)

I'm just kidding about the musical part. I don't think this would fare well to the blue hairs on Broadway.

Still, is anybody watching the Waco mini-series?

I saw the first two episodes. Lucky me. It's pretty good.

I suppose the only other question that remains is if a person can discuss the television show without getting into politics and/or religion? It might be impossible.

After all David Koresh was a ****** who thought he was a ********, while ***** *** ** with underage females.

But the show also shows how events took place on Mt. Carmel in 1993. It's fascinating. Especially how the ATF ***** and the FBI **** ***** **** *** **.

I remember walking by the TV at the time and seeing the compound smoking. When I came back later that day the place was pretty much torched to the ground.

It's a good show. It helps me remember things that I never knew about what happened to the Branch Davidians.

 

Wow, nobody is watching? Really? Such a good cast, too.

It makes me wonder if Koresh was the dude who knew what he was doing, like, "Ha ha! Look how I can control these people, and have sex with all these women!"

Or, was he the guy who really believed all the stuff he was saying, in other words not a faker? I'm not sure which is more scary.

 

Yeah, I'm watching it. I was really looking forward to this story to see how they were going to present it. So far, I'm not disappointed. Will be difficult to keep the religion and politics out of this thread so hopefully people will behave themselves. One thing is for sure, both sides are to blame. I believe DK believed who he was, and so did his followers. Weird thing is there are plenty of scriptures to disprove his way teaching and beliefs. Sad time in our history.

 

I heard a Texas reporter on NPR, who had covered the event extensively, discussing this show and indicating they got a whole lot of details wrong and sort of leaned it too much in favor of Koresh.

 

Right, without getting into the nuances of of any particular religion and/or a denomination, as with anything interpretation plays a big part in our lives, from music, to family values, to how we raise our children, etc. Any time anybody goes outside of the accepted norm it raises an eyebrow with the general populace. Obviously some topics are hold more weight than others, which is why we don't discuss religion and politics on this forum, as not to offend...and cause arguments!

To me it doesn't matter what anybody believes as long as they "first do no harm."

I think this show is asking how much harm were the Branch Davidians were doing, regardless of their beliefs. This is what @riverclown is saying, I believe, because the show doesn't really show Koresh as perfect, nor his teachings, but it does humanize him.

In the show, at least two episodes in, there is the contrast and comparison between Koresh and David Shannon, the hostage negotiator for the FBI.

So, really, the TV show portrays a classic good vs. evil trope, but very gray, as they don't want to viewer caught up in too much black and white.

I had no idea that there was an FBI informer in the Koresh's compound.

 

There is plenty of info out there to make your own decisions. I read an interview with one of the surviving Davidians who says they got a lot of stuff right, and he saw up to the third episode. Not saying his view is correct but I'm just glad they didn't show DK as some sort of monster in the first two episodes. He obviously had some sort of charisma in order to dupe his followers, and that's where - maybe - the reporter thinks they favor Koresh.

 

One scene mentioned was when the inside informant notifies the feds that Koresh is onto them, the Feds heavy handedly swoop in with one or more helicopters. In fact the feds moved more quietly and with less intimidation. I may be mis-remembering what the reporter said on NPR but it was something like that.

 

hmmm, 70 plus agents in full tactical gear with multiple vehicles and aerial diversions isn't what I would call less intimidation. It's just beyond me that the feds were informed by one of their own and they still went ahead with the raid. This really isn't new info, some of the reasons why I say this was just BAD all around.

 

You know, that's why I'm watching the show without remembering what went down. For some reason at the time I tuned all of it out. Waco was lost to me.

After the TV show I'll probably watch some documentaries about it. Or just check on Wikipedia.

Are they trying to say that Waco was a cock up by the government like Ruby Ridge? I mean, I really don't know. I suspect they showed Ruby Ridge in this series not just to show some of David Shannon's backstory.

 

Two episodes in and yes the cast is stellar (Nice 4 way Boardwalk Empire reunion to boot), but if you notice, every time they soften Koresh to a likable character, they immediately upend it with a shot of him bedding a teen or whatever. I think they're definitely trying to humanize him while at the same time show the 'Manson Bit'. It's very solid and Taylor Kitch is absolutely KILLING it! As a side note, the event coincided with the start of my career in morning radio which of course meant I was the 'Danger Boy'. I was sent to an apartment complex in the hopes of converting the residents to Branch Davidianism but was met with a slammed door at every turn. My final plea was "Well, do you have something I can set FIRE to?" I was co-host within a few years

 

Absolutely! Not a "cock-up" per se but there is a reason a lot of anti-government types were up in arms about Ruby Ridge and Waco. I think regular Americans, like myself, were disturbed by the execution and outcome of both. If i remember correctly, not only was the FBI negotiator (played by Shannon) at both events... so was the sniper that killed Vicky Weaver at Ruby Ridge. She was unarmed and standing inside her door when the shot was taken. I'm pro law enforcement and military for what its worth but these events just stink. I agree with Pablo, Taylor Kitch is great in this role.

 

Not Broadway, but it would make a perfectly respectable opera. Sex, violence...and everyone dies in a huge fire at the end. Compared to Wagner's Ring, the story of Waco is practically wholesome.

 

The reporter on NPR listed some other examples as well, but I was only halfway listening so I don't recall. I do remember she tried to list some further problems and the host interrupted to ask what it was like in those times, or some such nonsense, as if he wanted to stifle criticism. The NPR discussion is at this link The Waco Siege, Revisited
I haven't re-listened yet but will after I've seen some of the show.

 

Very interesting show!
But they seem to be trying to make him out to be just so charming, when in reality, he took advantage of weak minded people.

 

Playing devil's advocate here, but again subjective perspective. If they interviewed somebody who was there, and the TV show is based upon a book by somebody who was there, who is right?

Maybe both, maybe none, maybe one.

I won't listen until after the series. I almost started the documentary last night, but stopped myself.

 

there's bound to be some objective, provable facts, and that is what to look for. It will take more than one source. We'd almost need a lengthy panel discussion by objective experts in order to even begin to sort it out.

 

All true. But they made a TV show. I'm sure dramatic license has been taken. *shug* All TV shows do that.

 

I guess that's one good thing about this, is that maybe this will open up the dialog again on something that happened over twenty years ago. Honestly, there is a ton of stuff out there already, written accounts from both sides and even after-action reports from the government agencies involved. I've read a lot over the years and lastly, lets not forget that this was covered by the media from very start of the assault so plenty of visual/audio sources too. As I said earlier in the thread, I'm glad they aren't just painting DK as a monster and "sending in the Calvary to save the day" scenario.

 

Did anyone of the 4 watchers here see episode 3?

So, Han shot first, huh?

It makes me glad that I don't know the particulars of what went down, because this is very dramatic. I thought it was a little strange that Koresh was walking around so freely after spilling so much of his blood, but other than that it was another well made episode.

Nobody spoil it for me but...

Spoiler: Possible Spoiler

In the show, the whole thing started because the ATF guys shot the dogs

...which, if true, was how Ruby Ridge started, as one of the cops shot their dog because the dog sniffed them out. Then the kid got killed. I wonder if the writers just shoehorned that bit in to the Waco drama to mirror Ruby Ridge.

I also wonder if agent Shannon is in pure negotiation mode just to get Koresh to come out, so they can lock him up, or is he speaking out of his own emotions by this point, because he's still sore over what happened at Ruby Ridge.

Whether it's true or not, they certainly seem to be painting the government as the bad guys. I mean. what did Koresh do wrong, anyway, besides break polygamy laws. There seems to be one count of statutory rape, even though he had the parent's consent. I believe one of Koresh's followers even mentions that, at least alluding that David couldn't get out from under that charge, because even with parental consent, the woman was still too young.

Also, yeah, Koresh's folks had automatic weapons, according to the show, which requires a Class III weapons permit. Even if you have a Class III, I'm pretty sure the weapon had to start life as an automatic weapon, and not be a semi-automatic weapon modified to be full auto. I'm also pretty sure that the none of Koresh' people had a Class III, being that they are so difficult to come by. Or, now that I think about it, it's not that difficult in a rural area, because the biggest hurdle is having a police chief sign off on it. It seems here that Koresh had a police chief on his side.

 

Seems to me the story seems to be following a lot of what I've read, albeit the timelines are sped up a bit. The name of the ATF agent who gains access is changed and the story of why they are there (ranchers) is different but it doesn't change the story really. As to who shot first, there is no solid evidence from what I've gathered but the way it was presented in the show seems plausible. We'll see how the rest plays out, especially if people want to leave... which wasn't allowed from what I know.

 

It's amazing that I followed none of this when it happened, especially since it happened in my home state; moreover, I was already an adult.

But when OJ Simpson happened, I was all over it. I think because OJ was a beloved sports figure, and they cut into the Houston Rocket's playoff game to show that damned white Bronco scooting down the freeway.

My wife, on the other hand, knows all about the Waco scene, and she's 4.5 years younger than me, still in High School at the time.

 

i remember paying attention to it when it happened and thinking that the authorities were horribly mishandling the situation. years later, i saw the documetary Waco: Rules of Engagement and it painted the authorities in a very dim light. one of the really damning things was the evidence shown using FLIR technology.

 

Was it generally accepted in 1993 that the agencies mishandled the events outside of Waco, and is it the general consensus now that it was mishandled?

@GlamorProfession, there's a new two-part documentary made by A&E, I think, about Koresh and Waco that I plan on watching when the series is over.

 

I believe a congressional oversight committee found the BATF "grossly incompetent" and also placing a lot of blame on DK. For me, i don't think is was long after the initial raid when I stated to feel the execution was over the top.

Robert Rodriguez

 

Waco was supposed to be the ATF’s “redemption” from the Ruby Ridge debacle. They even hired a PR team as showcased in episode 2 of the series.

To say they botched this one too is an understatement.