Warner's debut DualDisc

Got the Warner Music Canada sked today, with a full-page promo for Dual Disc on the first page. The next Simple Plan album will be Warner's first release in the format, released Oct. 26, with unseen videos and a DVD-A 5.1 layer on the DVD side. Retail price in Canada- $20.98, which is being touted as an introductory price.

 

Looks like it's going to be this album.

They are charging $15.79 for the DualDisc; sale price is $13.29. And no mention of dvd-audio or the surround mix. Don't know much about Simple Plan other than they are supposed to be a "lite" punk group.

 

First GENERAL release. They had some contributions to the test market set. I wonder if those will get reissued?

Kwad

 

I sure hope The Cars debut album is among the first releases--IIRC it was supposed to come out early this year.

Anyone else curious as to how they remixed the track "Moving In Stereo" into surround form?

 

Great....whiny Sesame Street rock in 5.1

 

I'm glad to see Warner getting a quick start in the supposed major launch of DualDisc. Hopefully this first release will have a DVD-Audio layer with hi-rez stereo. That's my main concern moving forward with DualDisc. Warner made the mistake of not including hi-rez stereo with some of its initial DVD-Audio discs. Hopefully they won't make the same mistake twice.

By the way, who is Simple Plan?

 

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?style=music&pid=2945181&cart=206628029
listen to the samples.......yeeesh.

 

My 10 year old daughter and her friends all love Simple Plan - that seems to be a lot of who their music appeals to.

If my daughter gets this then I guess I will be forced to check out the DVD-A layer.

 

In return she can sit and listen to Porcupine Tree!

 

I agree. This would also be important for getting more audiophiles (typical diehard 2 channel ones) on board which could help build the early buzz.

 

Yup. If the Warner DualDiscs don't have hi-rez stereo, I won't be buying them despite their novelty. I bought one Silverline DVD-Audio disc four years ago and haven't bought another one since. I need stereo!

 

I've heard some of Simple Plan's music channel surfing and it is not my cup of tea. I will not buy this DualDisc which is my choice.

 

Dualdisc can only be successful if they sell it at the same price as CDs. I don't think that a reasonable fraction of pop music buyers is ready to pay more for music, even if bonuses such as high-rez audio (most people don't care about it), multichannel sound or video is included. People expect this to be added for free, like for example with the recent marketing idea of BMG Germany to sell albums as:

- 10 Euro CD without booklet
- 13 Euro regular CD (formerly the full price album, now cheaper)
- 20 Euro deluxe CD with added DVD including videos and other information material

 

I'm not interested in this release, couldn't care less about the band.

I won't claim to never buy a DualDisc without high res stereo, even though I would prefer it be included.

Suppose Steely Dan releases a new album in 2005. While I doubt they would release it this way, let's suppose they release it as a CD with a street price of $14, and a DualDisc with a street price of $16...same street date. Let's suppose the DualDisc has high-res 5.1, a video, and a documentary, but no high-res stereo. Would I pay the extra $2 for the DVD-A? Sure I would.

Of course, this is a theoretical example.

What if the disc were a reissue of a well-mastered CD that I already own, instead of a new release. Would I buy the DualDisc? Less likely, it might depend on the title.

I wouldn't be too concerned yet. First of all, high-res stereo isn't as big of a selling point for a teenybopper release (where most of the kids are listening to MP3 anyway), so I'd be less surprised to see if left off there than on a Pink Floyd, Elton John, or Beatles Dualdisc. Secondly, what makes any of us think that 'Simple Plan' actually records in high-res anyway? If the original master is some 16-bit Pro Tools and DAT production, why bother. Leave the stereo for the CD layer and use the space savings for more MTV crap.

As far as the majority of the audiophile community, they will never accept DualDisc, just as they have never accepted DVD-A. I don't agree with their rationale, but to each their own.

 

Oh, as far as the price, $21 CAD is $16.50 USD, which is less than the MSRP of most CDs here. Looking at online Canadian retailers, it appears that this disc is CD-priced, not even a $1 or $2 premium.

 

That's fine but I bet you are in the minority. For DualDisc to work in a way that it widens out to capture a large base I think it needs the following:

1. Same or lower price than current CD offerings. Not many will pay extra I think outside of audiophiles and other serious music fans/collectors.

2. Extra content such as both a hirez layer and videos and documentaries where available.

3. Strong marketing from every label. There is a lot of product competing for people's entertainment dollar.

I'm not down on DualDisc (anything that leads to more hirez is good IMHO) but having watched the SACD-DVDA formats develop, I am realistic about what is required to get a large group of mainstream America on board.

If there is no mainstream adoption then a small premium may be okay but I think the labels would view that as a failure since DualDisc is being tried to create a viable alternative to downloads.

 

I disagree; I think the audiophile community would definitely embrace DualDisc if the hirez content is well done and the titles are interesting. Take me for instance, I would gladly buy each and every Van Morrison DualDisc if I got hirez and preferably in two channel.

 

You will embrace a format that you say has an inherent metallic sound (I hate to think how awful you must think Steve's redbook discs sound) due to its use of PCM?

Then we've got guys like Mark Levinson claiming that anything that is PCM is 'CD' and that listening too it can cause serious health problems.

 

Michael,

Why are you bringing up format war talking points here?

The comment about Mark Levinson is particularly irrelevant. We are talking about how to make DualDisc exciting for audiophiles. If you like this format, that can only help adoption since many journalists are audiophiles.

By the way, I don't think Mark Levinson speaks for all of us when it comes to either PCM or health problems.

 

And I will be in line right behind Michael, joining in the minority

Hi-rez MC is the main reason I would have an interest in DD. I would be much, much less inclined to buy if there were no Hi-Rez MC track, although that would depend on the music.

Hypothetically speaking though, if say, Sgt. Pepper were to be on a DD, with ONLY a 2 CH hi-rez track, I would probably still buy it, but there are very few titles that I would go for w/o a hi-rez MC track.

Putting that all aside, w/o hi-rez, the odds of me buying any DD are pretty slim.

BGL

 

I agree that most DualDiscs would have to have a hi-rez layer (not necessarily stereo) for me to bite. You do have to remember that DualDiscs will definitely have a redbook CD layer for stereo and can have a hi-rez 5.1 layer (DVD-A). So if this is the case, are you saying you wouldn't buy the DualDisc of music you are interested in, since you are getting both stereo (redbook) and 5.1 hi-rez (DD only on Sony releases I assume). You would rather buy the redbook only edition (assuming there is one). If DualDisc does what it is supposed to do, it can replace redbook CD releases only - since one side will be redbook, with the flip side anything from DVD-Audio, to DVD-Video, etc. In this case we all win. We may not be getting hi-rez audio in all cases, but we are getting no worse than if this were a redbook CD release only. It really depends on how these discs are priced overall.

I can see a great use for DualDisc. Take the new Clash 25th Anniversary issue of "London Calling". This could have been a DualDisc or something like it. The package could contain the album proper as a regular redbook CD, while the extra "vanilla tapes" could be the redbook side of the DualDisc, with the flip side of the DualDisc being the DVD-video that came in the set. You get the same content you get in the 3-disc version on the market now, yet it comes on only two discs. Nothing lost, nothing gained.

One last point. I used to, like you, deride Silverline for their overall DVD-A quality. On the other hand, I have found that there are quite a few Silverline DVD-A discs that have a stellar 2-channel hi-rez mix. The Big Phat Band releases are two, the new Dar Williams releases are others. I have all 4 of these discs, and they are very worthy contenders in the DVD-A arena. Unfortunately, Silverline has made a bad name for itself by releasing Sanctuary label licensed product on DVD-A that ranges from poor to passable with regard to the surround mix (there are no stereo mixes on those DVD-As). So I have to believe it isn't Silverline, as much as it is the label they license the titles from, that dictates whether or not Silverline can include a hi-rez stereo layer. The only thing I guess we can pin on Silverline is their poor documentation on the packaging as to what we might expect on any specific title they release. By merely placing the tag-line "Stunning 5.1 surround sound" on every disc does nothing for me. On the Dar Williams releases, the only reason I bought them was because there was text stating something to the effect (I don't have the disc with me at work), "Stereo options available". I really didn't know what that meant. It could have meant that there was a LPCM stereo track, or a DD 2.0 stereo track, or even a 5.1 mixdown stereo track. Much to my surprise there was a 96/24 hi-rez stereo track on both Dar Williams discs. Now if Silverline would state that plainly and clearly on the package they would be doing more of a service to the consumer then what they place on their current packaging.

Now I understand Silverline is strongly in the DualDisc camp, and will be re-releasing previous released DVD-A titles (that had no stereo mix) on that format. I wonder then if they might become more desirable, since they will probably have a redbook stereo side, along with the DVD-A surround side???

 

Just to clarify (sort of...)
In Canada, suggested list price is $20.98 for the DualDisc, $20.98 for a CD/DVD (two discs) package, and $20.98 for each of two limited editions of the two-disc versions, with two different covers.

From the Warner sked:

The DVD side of the DD will include "DVD of never-seen-before video footage (including all album music as 5.1 Surround Sound/DVD-A)."

So no mention yet of hi-rez stereo, but who knows?

 

I'm talking about 'audiophile' dislike of DVD-A and PCM, not preference for other formats.

The majority of the audiophile community already rejected DVD-A. I don't see how gluing it to a CD will change their mind.

As for me, I eagerly await any and all releases from DVD-A, DualDisc, and the other high-res formats, as long as the are from acts I like and are well mastered.

But anybody who would settle for a well-done CD when available (myself and many of us) shouldn't avoid a release that adds high-res surround, video, and other stuff for the same price. Just doesn't seem to make sense to boycott a release for not including high-res stereo if you aren't actually paying extra for the stuff you are getting (unless maybe you already own the CD).

Is the DVD in the two disc package a DVD-A? Or something else?

 

I must be a real audio caveman, but if the surround mix was done well, I wouldn't mind just a Dolby Digital version of it if that was the only way to hear it.

 

Is the DVD in the two disc package a DVD-A? Or something else?[/QUOTE]




The sked doesn't make that clear.