Was Houses of the Holy a step down in quality after 4?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Morfmusic, Nov 8, 2018.

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  1. Well said. First time I heard the whole album of HOTH it blew me away. How on earth Zeppelin could make better & better records each time out was astonishing.
     
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  2. Mike Reynolds

    Mike Reynolds Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I can understand from a commercial standpoint that because HotH didn't have any smash hits like "Rock & Roll", "Black Dog", "When The Levee Breaks" and "Stairway To Heaven", the album may have been considered a step-down by the fans and media alike. If anything, the abysmal "D'yer Mak'er" (ever-present on the radio) may have helped shape that belief.
     
  3. uzn007

    uzn007 Pack Rat

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    It just hasn't worn as well over the years as most of their other tracks, IMO. I listen to it now and I'm like "Yeah, I get the joke".
     
  4. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Absolutely not, it's a wonderful album!
     
  5. Sondek

    Sondek Forum Resident

    It flows well with the rest of the album for me.
     
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  6. If I Can Dream_23

    If I Can Dream_23 Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I actually love his "sloppy" attack on that one. It's one of my all-time favorite Page solos in the entire catalogue - very loose and yet he completely nails the rockabilly vibe perfectly. Just my humble opinion of course.
     
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  7. Mike Reynolds

    Mike Reynolds Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    It's one of my favorites on the album, along with "Dancing Days" and "The Ocean".
     
  8. O Don Piano

    O Don Piano Senior Member

    To me, it sounds like he’s stumbling. Loose in a bad way. He was capable of playing intentionally kinetic, but with command.
    Still love it though!
     
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  9. babaluma

    babaluma Forum Resident

    I prefer it to 4...
     
  10. RudolphS

    RudolphS Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    Dismissing albums and songs because they're "played to death" to me always seems like a weird criticism. There are reasons why certain records are "played to death". Usually because they're the best ones.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
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  11. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    Wow. The Ocean alone makes Houses an incredible album to me. I listen to this album more often than IV, but that might be because I've heard IV so many times. They're very different albums, so I really can't compare them. I love them both.
     
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  12. DrBeatle

    DrBeatle The Rock and Roll Chemist

    Location:
    Midwest via Boston
    Agreed. For all of the high points, the blemishes ("D'yer M'aker," which I like and "The Crunge" which is just...yeesh) knock it down a few pegs. I still love the album, but it was definitely a step down after IV. Luckily they stormed back with PG next.
     
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  13. If I Can Dream_23

    If I Can Dream_23 Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    He could be I suppose. But then I always hear "stumbling" as a quality of the brisk rockabilly style to begin with. I thought stumbling was his intention. :)

    Perhaps it's just a case of me being so enamored by feel and less enamored by technique, that it never occurs to me that it's "off" in any way. But, then, that's always how I approached the beauty of Page's playing. Or anyone's, to be honest.
     
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  14. shakti

    shakti Senior Member

    Location:
    Ramnes, Norway
    My knee-jerk reaction was "Yes".

    But thinking about it, I think the appropriate answer is the one voiced by several above here; it was more of a step sideways.

    IV completed a trilogy (Spinal Tap moment here) of mostly blues-based albums with some folky stuff, building in complexity and reaching an absolute peak with IV, and with When The Levee Breaks as the masterpiece to end all masterpieces within that genre. Dark, mysterious, light-and-shade blues-based rock which no one else has matched.

    Where could they possibly go from there? Houses of the Holy does have a few throwaway tracks, but it seems it was almost inevitable that the band would have to lighten up just slightly. If anything, it showed they also had a sense of humour. And musically, Houses of the Holy goes new places. The high points are definitely on a par with anything they did before. It just seems they intentionally deflated their own balloon ever so slightly, in order not to get completely stuck in a formula. So what if it's not as consistent as the previous four? Every band reaches a peak, and IMHO they got there with IV. HOTH is still an excellent album, and most certainly not the kind of step down in quality like for instance the Stones from Exile to Goats Head, or even...(dare I say it)..The Who from Who's Next to Quadrophenia (I know, I know...many people consider Quadrophenia their peak...not me though).
     
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  15. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I dislike both "D'yer M'aker" and "The Crunge" but especially the former. So much great reggae music was around in the 70's that it was galling to hear that track get played daily like it was "Rock And Roll" or something.
     
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  16. DrBeatle

    DrBeatle The Rock and Roll Chemist

    Location:
    Midwest via Boston
    I'm with you, it's lame, but it's at least got enough charm that I don't hate it. "The Crunge" is just pitifully bad, from Plant's voice to the meandering "melody" (if you can even call it that) to those cringeworthy synth "horns." I know it was them having a lark and trying to have fun but it is sooooooooo bad. Just goes to show that you can't always take a riff from a jam and turn it into a good song.
     
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  17. HfxBob

    HfxBob Forum Resident

    So true. It really is a strange criticism-or at least one that needs to be re-thought.
     
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  18. ostrichfarm

    ostrichfarm Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    It's my favorite album of theirs, so certainly not. It's also the furthest they got from the blues, so maybe it's not a coincidence that I like it best, since a lot of blues-rock leaves me unmoved. If they'd dropped "D'yer Maker" for a re-recorded, uptempo version of "Night Flight", it'd be more or less perfect. (I'd gladly settle for replacing it with "Fool in the Rain" too, but that'd require a time machine.)

    I'm one of those who prefer the B-side of Led Zeppelin IV. "Black Dog" would have been more my speed if they'd kept Jonesy's original conception with time signature changes; "Rock and Roll" is the kind of self-referential song that always rubs me the wrong way (and I prefer "Immigrant Song" by 1000x anyway); "Battle of Evermore" is OK but I'm not a fan of Sandy Denny's voice; and "Stairway" is a masterwork, but an overplayed masterwork whose baggage gets tiring at times. The B-side feels much fresher to me.

    BTW one of the things I love about "The Crunge" is the weird, stumbling time signature (9/8, or 4/4 + 1/8) of the verses. That's certainly not a James Brown thing, and helps to elevate the song for me.
     
  19. If I Can Dream_23

    If I Can Dream_23 Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I never understood it either. Especially because it's unfair to the album itself. I mean the greatness of an album has nothing to do with the fact that you can't give the darn thing a rest because you are wearing it out! Or that radio can't. In either scenario, you have the choice of selecting the dial (at least during voluntary leisurely listening).

    It's never going to be a satisfying situation if one lets radio, media, or best of lists dictate their own appreciation of an album. It's best to just play albums on your terms and enjoy them on their own merits. It shouldn't matter if it's Sgt Pepper, Led Zeppelin IV, or the Underground Mickey Mouse Dance Band, pressed in limited quantities and pulled from release. :D

    Exposure has nothing to do with the album.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  20. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Senior Member

    Quality? That's a judgement call I won't make.

    I'll only say that the first three tracks make the album for me, and I like a couple of the others.
     
  21. vamborules

    vamborules Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    I wouldn't say it's a step down in quality really...there are a lot of great songs on it after all. But something about it makes it probably my least liked, least listened to of their
    albums. It's sounds less 'organic' or something...or like it's missing some of the grit. I can't really find the words. But the songs that are on TSRTS are far better in those versions.

    On the other hand some of the other ones really work with that sound, like Dancing Days, Over the Hills and Far Away, and The Ocean. But still. Not a favorite for me.
     
  22. cwd

    cwd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Clarksville, TN
    No.
     
  23. kaztor

    kaztor Music is the Best

    Initially the difference isn’t that noticeable. He was hitting the high notes all over III and IV. It really becomes obvious once you’ve heard subsequent albums where they don’t bother to cover things up.

    Because of Physical Graffiti this album is coupled with Presence in the Complete Studio Recordings box. Somehow they make a great pairing.
     
  24. Scott S.

    Scott S. lead singer for the best indie band on earth

    Location:
    Walmartville PA
    hell no, HOTH is their greatest work, truly a gift from the gods.
     
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  25. DPM

    DPM Senior Member

    Location:
    Nevada, USA
    Yes. IV is an all time classic for a reason, and there are no missteps to my ears. Every song works and fits in with its brothers and sisters. Every link in that chain is strong.

    Houses Of The Holy doesn't work quite as well as a cohesive whole. The high points (The Song Remains.., Rain Song, Over The Hills...,No Quarter) are fantastic and are right up there with IV, but the other half of the album varies from just good (Dancing Days, The Ocean) to mediocre (D'yer Ma'ker, The Crunge) IMHO.

    Still, much like Led Zeppelin's third album, Houses Of The Holy did serve a purpose in that it was transitional album that led to bigger and better things: in this case the band's magnum opus, Physical Graffiti. In fact, one could make a legitimate argument that Led Zeppelin's even number albums are the best of a strong catalogue.
     
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