was live sound better back when they used tube PA amps?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Bolero, May 2, 2003.

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  1. Bolero

    Bolero Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    North America
    I saw a band at a local venue, they had quite the PA setup.

    but it sounded painful & straining: I wanted to leave after about 1/2 hour. the band was actually very good, but the PA just didn't carry the sound very well, it sounded awful. there was a tearing-metal overtone to everything that just wore on your ears.

    now, lately I have been on a "small club-live music" kick, where only the vocals & maybe some of the drumkit were miked, so I am used to hearing the "instruments".....even heavy blues/rock, with cranked amps etc, sound much better unmiked IMO.

    vs. everything pumped through a massive PA

    so then I got to wondering......back in the early '70's when they used those big Hiwatt & Altec etc tube power amps for big shows, was the sound actually better? everyone goes apesh*t over tube home-audio these days, but how about live music?

    I could imagine how much warmer it might sound; they might not be able to get 10,000 watts out of it, but would the sound quality be any better?
     
  2. sydriver

    sydriver New Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    Yes if it isn't going through a PA but most shows back then fed the mic'd amps through a dreadful PA system, so in general, No. Nice idea though.
     
  3. Richard Feirstein

    Richard Feirstein New Member

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    The problem today is that even poor groups can afford relatively high output amps and highly efficient (if not accurate) speakers. There seems to be a curse placed on people who play in public. They must turn up the sound to levels that cause physical pain and distortion and they cannot sense the pain and distress they are inflicting on their loving audience. It's not the hardware it is the lack of good judgment over ego.

    The best live concerts I ever heard were at Forest Hills Tennis Stadium in the 60's where they used a couple of 20 watt Dyanco tube amps and three large home speakers on the lawn in front of the stage. Dylan, the Band, etc. Not too loud and great sound.

    Richard.
     
  4. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Was watching the Beatles Anthology, and George mentioned that VOX had got them 100w amps to replace their 30w VOX's. This was the Shea Stadium concert, and yes, they used the PA ams in the place, used for sports' announcing.

    "Ah, coulnd't have sounded too good" George remarked.
     
  5. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    For large venues (arenas, stadiums, anything NOT shaped like a regular theater) getting the sound and volume "right" is a pretty good trick. A few years back, my wife and sis-in-laws fanaticism over Bruce Springsteen allowed me to see several of the 2000 Madison Square Garden shows from various places in the arena (matter of fact, my wife and daughter are on the DVD of the concert in the front row. They received ticket upgrades from the nosebleed seats given by the "men in black").

    From the tenth row, the sound was powerfully loud, becoming painfully loud by mid-set when "Badlands" was played. From slightly behind the stage, just above stage level, the sound was consistently good (it is no surprise that there were a lot of "tapers" in that area). From seats mid-way up, but at the back of the hall, not only was Badlands NOT painfully loud, the audience "sing along" was easily louder than the band. So how do you strike an EQ and level that satisfies such a range of sound within a single venue?
     
  6. Bolero

    Bolero Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    North America
    thx, you guys make good points.

    the best concert I have been to, soundwise, is a tossup between Roger Water's KAOS show in a small outdoor arena, and JJ Cale in Vancouver a few years back.

    JJ Cale was really quiet, you could hear a whisper....but you know what? you could still hear EVERYTHING. the sound carried. what a real dynamic show, very tasteful playing by all of them, it was like being wrapped in a satin soundsheet.

    it sounded more like a live orchestra than a rock band, the whole place just breathed well. it was an old theatre, so maybe the carpeting & acoustics worked well in that context?

    Waters was unbelievable too.....the PA was HUGE, but they used it with restraint :) speakers all around behind the audience, it was a small ( 5,000 seat?) place, the sound was incredible.

    but so many rock bands are just loud all the time, & have no sense of dynamics....or maybe it's just the soundboard guys?

    anyway, I'm sold on small venues & live music with no PA.



    (....actually, the BEST live show I've ever seen was a small midnight bluegrass jam at a festival, under the stars, with acoustic standup bass, mandolin, 2 fiddles, & a geetar. just 6 guys standing around a lantern picking away. nothing like a real instrument moving the air in front of your ears!! )
     
  7. sgraham

    sgraham New Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    Modern sound systems generally are worlds better than what they used to be. It's not the amps so much as the speakers and how they're used.
     
  8. Pinknik

    Pinknik Senior Member

    You can immediately improve the sound of most live rock shows with earplugs. The best sound I've heard was Roger Waters as well, on the first leg of the IN THE FLESH tour. The volume increased in the second half of the show to just a little too loud, but still not bad. I didn't NEED the earplugs for any of the shows on that tour, but most of the time on other people's tours, it's almost unbearably loud.
     
  9. Vinyl-Addict

    Vinyl-Addict Groovetracer Manufacturer

    Location:
    USA
    When I played in bands years ago we used SS amps to drive our PA system. Our guitar amps were all tube however, Marshall (50wt & 100wt 1/2 stacks)bass player used Ampeg SVT head with 2 ampeg cabinets loaded with (8) 10" drivers in each. We rarely miked our amps or drums unless the gig was outdoors. I doubt a tube PA system would be enjoyable to listen to, IMO. :)
     
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