Was Pete Best really that bad of a drummer?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by RichieSnare, Mar 17, 2013.

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  1. muffmasterh

    muffmasterh Forum Resident

    Location:
    East London U.K
    i am happy to run with that, i was not suggesting otherwise I was just quoting the no promotion comment which has now been placed in its context.
     
  2. muffmasterh

    muffmasterh Forum Resident

    Location:
    East London U.K
    I know and there are so many other examples....they affect me viscerally to this day when i watch them - if that does not sound too much like pseuds corner lol !
     
  3. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Wow, I didn't know there was any film of them performing that track in existence. Is this a new discovery?
     
  4. EddieMann

    EddieMann I used to be a king...

    Location:
    Geneva, IL. USA.
    There are lots of songs by many groups whose songs move me like the Beatles do (but not nearly as many by any one group), but these guys give me chills when I just THINK about where they came from, what they did, and where they all ended up. I mean, NOBODY does that to me.
     
  5. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I would love to be able to sense what "Love Me Do" sounded like to then-current ears in 1962. 53 years later, it sounds somewhat stodgy and flat, but that's hindsight based on all the splendors the band achieved after it. Compared to other Fabs songs, it seems conservative, but perhaps in the climate of fall/winter 1962, it was new and fresh!
     
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  6. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    There's film of them doing that song in Bournemouth that year too. A short part of it was dubbed with 'She Loves You' and shown on the first US TV report on them on November 22 1963.
     
  7. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    They sounded strange to me in 1962, but Please Please Me sounded great, just brilliantly thrilling. From Me To You was also tremendously exciting, especially their great vocals.
    The song that I really DIDN'T like when I first heard it was She Loves You! Too noisy, too loud, too much shouting, seemed threatening and raucous. Kind of like Punk seemed to some in 1976! It must be very hard to get that feeling of how The Beatles seemed in 1963, but again, that's because what was new and odd and threatening then became the norm, entirely down to the Beatles enormous popularity and talent.
     
  8. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    53 years later and I think it sounds anything but stodgy and flat. It's got an unusual quality that almost defies classification. It sounds weird now and I can only imagine the reaction of folks at the time.

    Remember too, they'd be hearing the single version then not the album version which, to me, always sounded brighter and poppier (probably due to the tambourine).
     
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  9. dudley07726

    dudley07726 Forum Resident

    Location:
    FLA
    To this very day, She Loves You still sounds incredibly exciting. Must have been great first hearing it in 63. No wonder Beatlemania took off in the UK then.
     
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  10. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Probably because the "official story" (the one Martin always tells) is kinder and gentler to all involved---that way, Martin doesn't look like an EMI suit who couldn't recognize Ringo's innate talent and Ringo doesn't look like the 2nd drummer in a row that Martin rejected only to hire Andy White.

    Cutting Ron Richards out of the story not only makes Martin look like the good guy (for never hiring White again) but points to Martin as the man who made all the decisions....while we now know, if we accept Lewisohn's version of how the Beatles were really signed to Parlophone, that Martin didn't really want to sign them in the first place.
     
  11. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Maybe you were hunting for the missing first verse of "My Bonnie", like many of us were....
     
  12. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    It's possible, but in my opinion there was never a need to make up a story. As far as I can remember, George Martin seems to think the 11 September session came BEFORE 4 September. Every detail, whether it be Andy White, not knowing Ringo was in the band to the "slow" version of Please Please Me coming from the later session is wrong... and always has been. It seems QUITE likely that any "slow" version of Please Please Me came from the 4 September session (or maybe even the June 6 date) and that they sped it up and presented it as a possible single track during the 11 September session.

    As for the facts: The documentation Lewisohn unearthed points to The Beatles being signed to a recording contract on 4 June 1962. And that the session held on June 6 was indeed intended to produce their debut single. It would be awesome if we ever get to hear the early version of Ask Me Why. There's really no need for George Martin to have embellished the story early on. Ron

    PS Even in the late 80's Martin insisted that stereo mixes for their first two albums were never released... later revised as never being done by him or EMI at the time.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
  13. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    It's not unheard of for a drummer to incorporate other percussion into his playing the standard drum kit. Joe Morello did that in the Dave Brubeck Quartet, playing the tambourine with one hand while drumming. He also was the inspiration for Bonzo to play with his hands.
     
  14. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    We all know how sensitive Ringo was/is to being 'replaced' by either Andy White or Jimmy Nichol...it doesn't seem strange at all to me that Martin would respond to that by slightly varying the sequence of events to make himself look not like the bad guy who saw Ringo on the 4th and then hired White for the next session.
     
  15. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    P
    Yea, but not maracas AND tambourine AND drums. I've never seen that. Certainly not in the studio. Ron
     
  16. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    I'm going to go downstairs now to my drum set to try it. One old trick is to lay the tambourine on top of the hi-hat to get some extra sizzle.

    **Edit**

    It is definitely possible to hold the tambourine and a stick in the right hand and play a simple ride cymbal part while getting some tambourine jangle going. Holding the maracas in the left hand with a stick works too but isn't that audible if you only play it on the snare hit.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
  17. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    That combination always went over well at the Liverpool ballrooms, though. Guess you had to be there... ;)
     
  18. muffmasterh

    muffmasterh Forum Resident

    Location:
    East London U.K
    its that memory thing again, it plays tricks on us all, why should others be immune...
     
  19. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Considering that George Martin will be 90 next year (in January 2016), I doubt that he's going to change any part of the story now.

    I wonder though if Mark Lewisohn conducted any interviews specifically with Martin for his first volume or any future volume. It doesn't ring a bell for me, but maybe I'm forgetting.
     
  20. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Perhaps "stodgy and flat" aren't the right words to describe "Love Me Do" - I dunno. I do think it's a song that sounds "old" to me, whereas "PPM" sounds fresh. "PPM" is a song that hints at the band's true talents, whereas "LMD" just seems pleasant... :shrug:
     
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  21. EddieMann

    EddieMann I used to be a king...

    Location:
    Geneva, IL. USA.
    To me, Love Me Do always sounded safe. Please, Please Me was a 'throw all caution to the wind' song.
     
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  22. Sax-son

    Sax-son Forum Resident

    Location:
    Three Rivers, CA
    He was definitely a boom chucker.
     
  23. Prophetzong

    Prophetzong Forum Resident

    Location:
    NE WISC
    With John, Paul and George fronting the Beatles any competent drummer could have made it. Richard Starkey was just in the right place at the right time.
     
  24. dewey02

    dewey02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The mid-South.
    Lots and lots of previous comments on this topic.
    Just a caution, prepare to have all sorts of nastiness hurled your way. :hide:
     
  25. Prophetzong

    Prophetzong Forum Resident

    Location:
    NE WISC
    Truth hurts. Ringo's singing sounded terrible singing " It don't come Easy" on R&R Hall of Fame Induction ceremony on HBO last night. At least the Beatles could have muzzled Pete Best.

    Imagine if the Beatles would have had a drummer like Buddy Rich....
     
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