Were Nirvana really bigger than Guns N' Roses?

Yeah...Honeybunch has that effect on me too! What exactly is the dude talking about? Perhaps somebody, somewhere knows!

 

We didn't answer the question.

 

Yikes!

 

I'm saying it isn't the Nirvana influence. Like i said before changing the singer WHO ALSO WROTE MUCH OF THE MUSIC WAS THE BIGGEST REASON THE ALBUM CAME OUT THAT WAY. Also popluar rock music was just getting heavier The biggest selling record that came out in 91 wasn't Nevermind, it was the metallica record. Pantera put out cowboys from hell the year before. GnR AFD came out in '87 and got big in '88 -'89.

"And just recently I heard Queensryche's Promised Land for the first time - the grunge influence is pretty obvious to me on that one too."

Well Queensryche really wasn't a hair metal band. They were as "grunge" as soundgarden (they were a band from WA that was not hair metal or thrash". In fact I'm calling Queensryche the first grunge band.

 

or the Jimi Hendrix EXP

 

I agree with this. I don't think the breakthrough of Metallica with the Black Album gets as much attention as Nevermind, probably because Hetfield didn't shoot himself shortly afterwards, but it was an equally important part of the trend of formerly "alternative" heavier music becoming popular at that time.

 

Not sure I agree. Metallica got less heavy in order to find their success. The Black Album was no heavier than Appetite for Destruction was 4 years earlier IMO.

I don't think popular music was really getting heavier - certainly didn't seem like it at the time - and if it was I would not credit Nirvana with that. IMO they had more to do with the popularization of indie and the various "alternative" genres than "heavy" music.

I think what was starting to happen back in that era was a continuous splintering into endless musical categories and genres - which is basically where we are now.

 

Dave and Krist were tall, but Kurt was pretty small, so I guess Guns n Roses were bigger.

 

Disagree. I'm not saying Nirvana was THE ONLY influence. Not at all. But to me they did spearhead what felt like a new musical movement - for better or worse. Of course they didn't do it alone - any more than the Beatles were solely responsible for the British Invasion of the '60s. So no Crue's s/t album doesn't "sound like Nirvana" but to me it always sounded like a concerted effort on their part to move with the times and sound "grungier". Kinda like KISS tried to disco up their sound on Dynasty. The influence and effort were unmistakeable IMO.

As for Queensryche, yes they're from Seattle but that don't make them "grunge" any more than Heart are. Not sure how I'd classify their classic works - guess it doesn't really matter in the end. Certainly they became "prog metal" in their Operation Mindcrime years.

Edit: I've heard Neil Young referred to as the "godfather of grunge". This definitely rings true to my ears.

 

i don't really hear grunge in promised land at all. its a bit heavier with some more prog sounding pieces

 

Well whatever it is, I don't like it! I'll take Warning, Mindcrime and Empire, thank you.

 

so you wanted a progressive band to keep making 80's metal albums? thats like saying you don't like david bowie after he retired the ziggy stardust era or you don't like the who after tommy because they changed into stadium rock

 

No. I'm merely saying I don't like Promised Land. Did you forget to take your happy pills today?

 

no. they are a prog metal band. that means they aren't going to stay with the same sound. even warning, mindcrime and empire all sound different

 

The bold, I believe, represents a revisionist perspective. I don't think Cobain's suicide had much to do with the attention paid to Nevermind, because much attention was paid to it when it debuted. Although Soundgarden was probably the first Seattle "grunge" band the national rock press, e.g. Rolling Stone, paid attention to (I recall reading a review of Louder Than Love roundabout '89), Nirvana and Nevermind were, at the time, seen as the spearhead of the Seattle scene nationally. So, really, part of the difference between Metallica and Nirvana in terms of popularity in the early 90s was the fact the media portrayed Nirvana as the kings of a new music scene, and I don' t recall Metallica ever being portrayed in the national media as the band that kicked the door open to a new SF metal scene (whether that happened or not, and I'm pretty sure it didn't).

Plus, the simple fact is that metal is never going to be as palatable to a mass audience as the fusion of pop and punk that Nirvana was mining.

There seems to be a misapprehension, and I've seen it on these pages before relative to Jim Morrison, that the death of a rock star is what "makes" the star or the band popular. Not the case. All the death does is attract a short burst of media attention, and shortens the catalog. And fuels conspiracy theories. Which is to say Morrison's and Cobain's musical legacies were set years before they exited prematurely.

But as a music fan who lived through G 'N' R and Nirvana hitting the national scene, I wouldn't say one was really bigger than the other. They were both huge nationally in their time.

 

Your point being what exactly? I don't like Promised Land is mine. You think there's something wrong with that?

 

Sorry, but calling Nirvana a one-song band is just nonsense. And there was lots of interesting stuff going on in the early 90s.

 

GNR, Nirvana, Metallica, R.E.M., U2, Michael Jackson... whoever the biggest was, I miss 1991. There hasn't been a year like it since for massive albums. So much so that I haven't even included the swan song from a small band called Queen.

In terms of GNR vs Nirvana, I think GNR were bigger on the live circuit. Perhaps because they wanted to be, but Nirvana never went on a tour to compete with the Use Your Illusion one. One thing I never agree with is that Nirvana's place in rock history largely comes from Kurt Cobain's suicide. As a teenager at the time, Nirvana definitely felt the closest my generation ever came to Beatlemania. Everyone in my school respected them whether they liked the music or not whereas you could expect a snobbish dig or two for being seen in a GNR T-shirt.

 

Another funny parallel between the two acts: their leader/writer/singers Billy and Kurt shared something else: both were Courtney's lovers.
Did she inspire both these guys to play heavy, dark music and howl rather than sing their lyrics?

Great essay by the way.

 

GNR are more the average joe's idea of what a rock band should be. They tick all the boxes.

 

Both of you might be diminishing Metallica's popularity prior to their eponymous album. Their 1988 album went top ten in Europe and USA. They changed their writing approach with Bob Rock, yes. They had also increased their popularity by touring old and new material successfully in the 1988-1989 time frame. Many people at least knew the name, Metallica, from around 1989 due to their stock already rising from 1983-1989. A year or three years prior to "Enter Sandman", a kid in my school was regularly wearing Metallica and other band shirts to school.

Driver 8 is correct that Nirvana rode Metallica's coattails to become popular. "Enter Sandman" was a MTV hit before "Smells Like Teen Spirit". Prior to "Enter Sandman" rock bands generally didn't get massive "MTV primetime" coverage with new songs other than ballads. I'm sure that MTV played heavy rock GNR hits like "Welcome to the Jungle" after they hit with "Sweet Child of Mine", but the former was actually the band's first single. Geffen consciously aimed for a promotional approach with GNR that played up rockers rather than ballads. Certainly GNR helped promote heavy rock with their popular MTV videos for "Paradise City" and "Welcome to the Jungle" around the same time that Metallica was touring in 1989. Prior to GNR's success, the MTV program Headbangers Ball was probably the main showcase for that type of material.

I can't speak to FM pop radio for GNR, because the biggest pop station in L.A., the one I listened to in 1989 (KIIS FM) probably never played any GNR other than ballads (if that), just like they avoided playing any big hits by Alice Cooper ("Poison").

 

Wrong again. 'Enter sandman' got pushed hard by mtv because it was Metallica. 'Teen spirit' premiered on 120 minutes and generated enough buzz that it became popular. Big difference.

 

You listened to KIIS, SP? Eww...

 

It was one right after the other. Metallica released "Enter Sandman" in July, with Nirvana releasing "Smells Like Teen Spirit" in September.