What are you used to?

Dave,

You have done an excellent job of describing the "hotter" mix and processing of 45's for AM Radio airplay! In some cases these "single mixes" are more compelling to listen to. I plan on posting a thread on Saturday listing some of these along with some listening notes. A super example of this was pointed out by Steve in a thread earlier this year--Baby Come Back by the Equals. The Mono single was mastered and cut "hot" for impact on AM Radio while the album version pales in comparison.

Bob

 

Listening to the singles on an illegal transistor radio in a dormitory while at boarding school was fun and one of the few times when everyone agreed - sort of a communal experience. Music actually did bring us together. Singles were it.
When I began to seriously listen, it was more of a private experience listening to the LP's and gradually becoming aware of sound quality.
I find it hard to listen to the single version of some songs such as Light My Fire or Won't Get Fooled Again as I want it all!
In the case of my favourite music such as the Beatles, there is no distinction between single and LP versions except for the mono stereo thing - (Get Back and Let It Be notwithstanding).
Interesting thread Grant - I find that some of these questions remind me of experiences I had forgotten.

 

I have a bunch of singles by Canadian bands that many will not have heard of but they are great. Many have a different (hotter) mix that their LP counterparts. I will try to compile some kind of list to add to your future thread.

 

Dave,

Super!

Bob

 

Bob, Too bad you didn't have the big tape deck back then, you could have made some nice copies off of the vinyl that was coming in to the Radio station.

 

"Hotter" singles.. yeah!

Ticket to Ride, Paperback Writer, Revolution.. much hotter than the standard stereo.

How 'bout Bobby D's "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35". While I don't appreciate the "edit", it sure sounded richer than any stereo version - REGARDLESS OF FORMAT OR REMIX VERSION - that I've ever heard (maybe that upcoming "mono vinyl" Blonde on Blond will remind many...)

They were "futzing" with singles way after the 60's - remember "Free Ride" by the Edgar Winter Group? The second single off the album if I recall - only they added some funky synth parts to it. I wonder how many people bought the lp and thought it sounded a little... er .... subdued?

"Spinning Wheel" by BST - to this day the lp version sounds empty where the guitar solo should be (one of the few times I wondered "what were they thinking?" when the did the lp mix).

Bottom line - I really am an lp version guy. Anything after '69, ususally the first time I'm hearing a single edit is on a CD I'm about to trash. If you grew up with the lp version, you just feel you fell you've been cheated out of the music the way YOU remember it. I've said this before - but it bears repeating - just label the CD if you use an edited version. Some artists are not worthy of buying their lp catalog, just to get 4 songs....

 

I agree. I always 'copped an atittude' toward the radio edits. I felt that they were sell out versions to please the '45 record buying' populous just to make the charts and I've always held that the LP versions were the definitive version. Before '69 and a few after, the mono version could hold water as the best release but only early on.

As far as nostalgia goes...I can understand why one might prefer the radio edits.

 

On the other hand, there are artists that didn't really release longer versions of their hits. What you see is what you get. There were even some genres of music that really didn't change what was on the LP. Longer, versions were really more of a rock thing until the mid-seventies.

 

But now, single versions are basically remixes of album tracks that do not sound any different than the album version. Yes, I agree that sometimes the single versions back then rule. The 2:50 single edit of "You Make Me Feel Like Dancing" by Leo Sayer is an edit of the 3:38 album version.

 

But there, I think they goofed! The natural progression of the song was ruined when they did the single. They rearrainged it totally!

I happen to have the original LP without the sax solo on "When I Need You". This is one of those rare times when I think less is more. I did a beautiful LP to CD-R transfer of this version. You cannot tell it's from vinyl! But I retained the sound of the LP. I got that sucker so good it sounds like the master tape. It helped to have a pristine LP.

Steve, I think that single version of Miss you IS on CD, a British import of the Stones 70s & 80s hits, mastered my Bob Ludwig using that VU-22 system.

 

I think single versions should be used on "Greatest Hits" albums, unless the long version actually got more airplay. This would be the case with the previously-mentioned "Blinded By the Light, " or The Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again." I'm sure there are others.

The biggest issue in single vs. album is usually mono vs. stereo, which undoubtedly has been discussed to death on other threads.

 

Maybe the long versions get more airplay NOW, and maybe they got it on dedicated rock stations in 1976, 77, but what about top 40 radio and singles sales? "Blinded..." was a #1 single. The LP version didn't do that. So, unless you could go back in the time machine and poll all thr radio stations that played it, you cannot know that the LP version got more airplay. Don't forget that what radio played was regional.

 

Tullman,

I had a Sony reel deck in those days that played 7" tapes and yes, I did tape a lot of 45's. Unfortunately, those tapes have long since self-destructed...too many years ago. I was able to secure a lot of their extra promo 45's, however. Those have survived, quite nicely!

Bob

 

Steve,

I do not believe that I have ever seen the 45 version on CD. Did you happen to get one of those red vinyl Miss You 45's? I have a pink vinyl 12", a red vinyl 12" and the red vinyl 45....those were the days!

Bob

 

Another example of this is the 45 version of Closer To Home by Grand Funk Railroad. It runs about 5:30, cut down from 9:43 on the LP. There are about 20 edits but they are almost "invisible" and it trims all the fat while compiling all the great stuff into a neat compact song. Wonderful job.

 

Steve,

You should be more direct in your analysis!

True observation! I am going to be publishing a detailed thread on single versions on Saturday with the intent of illustrating the definitive single versions versus their album counterparts from the late 50's through the 60's. I spent 4 hours in research last night after work...a fun project!

Bob

 

I voted for the LP.
I grew up listening to album rock radio in the 80's and always enjoyed when they 'd play non-single cuts from LPs. This station always played the LP cuts of regular singles, except for the odd advance 45 or something.

Another thing that was going on back then was the extended mixes, as someone here else mentioned. Sometimes a label would send out 12" mixes as promos only for radio. Most were pretty week, just a bunch of drum loops and echo added to kill time.
Some were fun though. I liked the 12" of Forigner's "That Was Yesterday" and I remember recording it from the radio. And I found a promo of The Firm's "Radioactive" a few years back, which I liked hearing on the radio. That song had a cool riff that was extended for the mix.

I don't like 45 edits, and niether did Billy Joel. Here's a few lines from his wonderful and cynical song 'The Entertainer':

"I am the entertainer
I come to do my show
You've heard my latest record
It's been on the radio
Ah, it took me years to write it
They were the best years of my life
It was a beautiful song
But it ran too long
If you're gonna have a hit
You gotta make it fit
So they cut it down to 3:05"

Dan C

 

Steve,

That single version will be in my thread for sure. Great example of where the single version is the definitive version! I am going to be classifying those differences by certain criteria that are being kept "top secret" until I post my thread.

Bob

 

Hmmm, I never heard the single edit. I always thought the story worked as a long cut. I guess i'll have to find it to hear what they did.

 

Grant,

The single edit is very good.....same feel, just shorter. I have always thought that editing gave the song a better feel than the original version from the LP.

Bob

 

And, it's very obvious!

Another is "Get Down Tonight" by KC & The Sunshine band. They added a repeat of the main body with just the rhythm track and added overdubs. You can plainly tell because the sonics and pitch change.
Many disco 12" singles were done this way.

 

Bob, and all, I think it matters who does the editing.

I will be happy to help you out with your list, as I also pay close attention to these things.

Don't forget
Play That Funky Music-Wild Cherry
Disco Nights-GQ
Knock On Wood-Amii Stewart

The edited versions of these songs are wrong on most or all CDs.