What does Steve Hoffman think of the new Beatles Sgt. Pepper remix?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by NGeorge, May 31, 2017.

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  1. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    This whole thread is getting ridiculous, but I think Steve Hoffmann has been very careful not to make any clear public judgements about the overall remixed album. He's commented on something he heard on one song. He never disparaged Giles Martin. If anything, if Steve has strong opinions about the remixed Sgt Pepper, I think he has shown great restraint in giving us his overall opinion. He also knows there are people out there who will hang on his every word, those who can't think for themselves, and those with agendas who will find ways to use his own words against him. He also is active in the industry and must, at times, work with, or rely on these people. He can't go around making public negative comments about a peer's work. The industry reads this forum.
     
  2. TV and video games are not leisure time?
     
    Bern likes this.
  3. Wugged

    Wugged Forum Resident

    Location:
    Warsaw, Poland
    So, are you saying Steve hasn't said anything like this ? :

    "That being said, the new version is way too compressed and limited. All the micro and macro dynamics have been squashed out of it, brutally, on purpose. All subtlety gone. Maybe that's what they had to do to get it to work, dunno. I don't like that."

    or

    "The vinyl sounds pretty much brickwalled as well. At least compared to any other vinyl version."

    or

    "The basic multi-track channels compressed when transferred to digital (nasty, makes everything the same loudness for ease of mixing). Compressed again during mixing channels to two track stereo digital. Compressed again when being placed in proper order for final sequenced digital master. Compressed again in digital or LP mastering."
     
  4. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Original mixes re-released again in 2012 (Rhino Flashback) and the first album again in 2017:

    The Doors - The Doors (Remastered) | Rhino

    The albums on Spotify are the original mixes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
    stereoptic likes this.
  5. JamesD1957

    JamesD1957 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cypress, Texas
    Personal issues? Really? You don't know me, and thankfully, I don't know you. I would never make a direct personal assault on another forum member. But, it does seem that all of the negative responses have helped make my point. Now I'm going to take my own advice and not respond. Be happy.
     
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  6. bobcat

    bobcat Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    But which ones are seen as the standard catalogue discs?
     
  7. bobcat

    bobcat Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    "But, it does seem that all of the negative responses have helped make my point."....not even remotely true.

    "I would never make a direct personal assault on another forum member.".....maybe, but you managed to collectively denigrate everyone who said they didn't like the mix with the utterly preposterous suggestion that they were waiting for the host of this forum to tell them what to think.
     
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  8. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    How do I demonstrate that to you? I'd think that if the remixes were the standard catalog discs, they'd be the ones on Spotify. As far as I can see the albums with the original mixes are the only ones on Spotify.

    In any case, I remember that back when the stereo remixes were released on CD with bonustracks, the Doors machine claimed that the remixes were the standard and that was just how it's gonna be from now on, But since then they've released the original mixes again at least twice, and in the US, the remixes don't even appear on Spotify. That's the evidence for my argument, if you've got something more definitive, I'd be happy to know it.
     
    thrivingonariff likes this.
  9. bobcat

    bobcat Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I don't have anything more definitive. That's why I ask the question.

    I looked at Amazon and, as usual with them, it's a bit of a mess and very hard to tell what they sell as the standard issue discs.
     
  10. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    It's OK to like it or not like it. All opinions should be respected, especially when someone provides arguments (like Mr. Hoffman has done in this thread). But I guess the "bitch fest" the other poster referred to was the part in which some people call Giles Martin "an amateur" or suggest he should read a book about how to master music.
     
  11. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    Some of his decisions seem like amateur mistakes. In at least one case he admitted as such.
     
  12. AndyK235

    AndyK235 Forum Resident

    But in this case, i would argue that just because it is loud or uses "modern" compression levels doesn't make it sound bad to me, or unlistenable. Most of the Giles Martin 2017 mix sounds quite good to me (I really like Getting Better, for example). I will trade the partial loss of dynamics compared to the '67 or '87 versions for a clearer, brighter sound (with the original tracking tapes) and less hard panning. Sgt. Pepper was good enough to be good even with the wonky '60s stereo mix. Indeed, all the Beatles albums with the hard panning are still good, although in most cases in which I have heard the same songs in the mono format, I prefer mono. In some cases, the mono is FAR better (a lot of the stuff they did on 2 track should have never even been released in stereo in my opinion, like It Won't Be Long or All My Loving. Both of those sound just wrong with the split left/right stereo).
     
  13. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    I don't like some of his decisions, but I would never call a professional that. That is what I would call bitching.

    And no, I don't believe he called that to himself.
     
  14. AndyK235

    AndyK235 Forum Resident

    The biggest mistake I heard, and I only noticed it after I read a post by Steve Hoffman, was that because they weren't using the "bounced" tapes, the Beatles harmonies and the guitars were slightly out of tune during part of the title track. I listened to it on my work computer and then listened the older mix, and I heard what he was talking about. I was down about it at first, but decided to listen more. But after listening to it again in my car I realized it didn't bother me that much. Plus, the title track is not one of my top tracks from the album. I often go right to With a Little Help or Getting Better when I listen. I haven't even listened to more than a little bit of Within You, Without You because that is the song I usually skip past on Pepper anyway.
     
    Tim Müller likes this.
  15. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Oh, it was late. I didn't remember all that. :oops: But,I he didn't go around bashing Giles Martin like some people are doing.
     
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Look, again, I didn't say I didn't like it. As a novelty it's fun. My kids and I listened to the remix on the way to school today and we all sang along. But it will never replace the originals in my heart. And my kids? They don't care, they just love the songs. That's the new world and it's fine with me.. They'll have enough other s*** to worry about as they grow up...
     
  17. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    That trade-off is what I would call trading musical qualities for audiophile ones. Dynamics impart life to the music. Sounding clearer or brighter are audiophile qualities, but not necessarily musical ones.
     
  18. MHP

    MHP Lover of Rock ‘n Roll

    Location:
    DK
    This forum has many members who are angst-ridden for a future with Beatles products, they are not going to be part of or can't contribute to. They are nervous all over that modern remixes are going to substitute what they grew up with.
    I like your post about kids just loving the songs and that's how it should be. The future is in the hand of the kids. Deal with it. If the majority of the forum would just accept that the remix is a fun alternative...
     
  19. Tim Müller

    Tim Müller Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Hello,

    I think you were polite when you pointed out certain things in the new mix. Like, slightly out-of-tune backing voacals.
    Or, compression added onto compression on top of compression.
    Micro and macro dynamics squashed out of the new version, brutally, on purpose.
    Vinyl is brickwalled, too.

    These are just factual statements and objective observations.

    And you made clear, you would still prefer the original stereo mix. You stated, the new stereo re-mix is fun as a novelty.
    That's a subjective statement about how you like the new version.

    But, what you did not do, was calling the re-mixers and producers "amateurs", or attacking them in a personal way, or question their professional qualifications.

    You stated, what you observed in the new version, and how you liked it.

    That's OK. Both of such statements, the facts and the personal oppinion on it, whether you like it or not, and for what reasons, must be allowed to express in such a discussion. How else could one discuss a new re-mix without such statements?

    What you criticised (if it's criticising at all) was the new version, but no attacks against persons. That's cool. You played the ball, not the man.

    Best regards
     
    bobcat likes this.
  20. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I typically don't listen to each and every song as I'm making the needledrops... off doing other things around the house. I can hear the music, but I'm not listening intently. I make any small corrections as necessary later when I'm using Audacity or one of my other software audio programs. I hadn't listened to the new Sgt. Pepper LP in full before I 'dropped it then listened to it on a long drive this past weekend. Might seem odd to you that I do things this way, but it works for me. Ron
     
  21. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    That's the Doors. Every artist and band and their associated labels decide what works best for them. If Apple and Universal go this route with the Beatles catalog I'd be surprised and upset if the remixes supplanted the standard catalog. I admit it's a bit confusing with streaming sites, but the standard albums will remain in print for a long time to come. Ten years from now they'll likely re-issue the ORIGINAL STEREO and MONO masters from the original ANALOG tapes. Back to nature and all that. In the meantime, they will probably do Anniversary Sets for the White Album, Abbey Road and Let It Be and that will end the remix phase.... for now. Ron
     
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  22. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Umm, I said folks of MY generation don't have as much leisure time these days. The YOUNGER generation tends to use THEIR spare time watching TV and playing video games, not listening to 2 or 3 albums at a time like many of us use to do routinely. Ron
     
  23. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    Could you provide the quote where he admitted his mistake?
     
  24. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    Angst is a strong word.

    I reserve the word angst for whether or not I stay employed or the current state of the world (no political commentary intended), not a Beatles CD.

    At the end of the day, whether or not I or anyone else likes or dislikes Giles remix amounts to a hill of beans, in the grand scheme of things.
     
  25. Lance Hall

    Lance Hall Senior Member

    Location:
    Fort Worth, Texas
    It was one mixes where he left something out and later admitted it was a goof.

    Actually there have been multiple big mixing goofs that have been discussed here.

    But we can blame Apple quality control for letting the mistakes go out since Giles doesn't know these songs in detail like most of us do here.

    Some of the Rock band mixes have goofs like wrong vocal track at end of "Come Together" and erasing John's "woooo" on "I Feel Fine" before the solo. Those could have been on purpose though given the project.
     
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