What does Steve Hoffman think of the new Beatles Sgt. Pepper remix?

I am slowly losing track of what was remixed, how many times songs/albums are remixed, what tapes were mixed from what tapes and where and by whom....At 50 this isn't getting any easier.

But here goes...

It is the belief around here among members
(unsubstantiated) that all the Beatle 1987 CDs were transferred flat. I assumed that too because back in 1987 that's how most of them were done. It wasn't like vinyl where you needed to sometimes compress the dynamic range of an album, or modify the bass so you can cut it, etc, etc... Oh happy day - consumers could finally get an exact copy of the master. Oh a copy of the copy of the master...Or an exact copy of the 4th generation of the -You get the idea. But not all masters sound good and some do need "work" before they are usuable. I never thought the Beatles masters sounded like they needed work but George Martin did. Here is an exert from a 1987 interview. Long before Sir George Martin lost his memory and hearing.


...These early Parlophone ads show stereo catalogue numbers.
ALLAN KOZINN: However, I've found some early Parlophone advertisements -- including one in a 1963 tour program -- that not only gives the mono and stereo catalogue numbers, but shows photos of the stereo album covers. They do seem to have been released simultaneously.

GEORGE MARTIN: [silence] I can't believe that. We issued "Please Please Me" in February 1963, and certainly no stereo mixes were made. Not by me. Not by anybody I know.

[Editor's note: "Please Please Me" was released in March 1963 in mono and April 1963 in stereo; the studio paperwork lists Martin as the producer on the day when both mixes were made.]

ALLAN KOZINN: Well, I have another advertisement that shows "Please Please Me," the "Twist and Shout" EP and the "She Loves You" single -- which, taken together, would place that ad in about August 1963 -- and again, it gives the stereo catalogue number for the album.

GEORGE MARTIN: You have the advantage of me. I was not aware of a stereo album being produced. I thought it had been done after I left in 1965. Certainly I wasn't aware of it at the time. Now, that may seem extraordinary to you, but in 1963 I don't even think I had time to have breakfast. Certainly I didn't do the stereo mixes, and neither did the Beatles. Some geezer at EMI probably looked at this and said, for the minority of stereo people around, we'd better put out a stereo record.

ALLAN KOZINN: Back to the CD remixes. You've done the next three; will "Sgt. Pepper" then be the original mix?

GEORGE MARTIN: I'm certain it will be, and I'm certain that from then on all the mixes will be the originals, except that I don't want them to go out unadulterated. I think the EQs on the CDs may be wrong, so I'd like to look at them and see that they are not quite as strident, or coarse as they might be...."

Members - make of that what you will. To me it says a lot.
1. We know Sir George was responsible for the all the original Beatle 1987 CD's.

2. And that he didn't want them released as is straight off the master. "...I don't want them to go out unadulterated..."

3. We know that EMI was planning to issue them with eq originally, "....I think the EQs on the CD's may be wrong..." Past tense.

Of course this doesn't mean he used eq. Maybe he thought all the former EMI Eq was unnecessary and decided not to use any. I can see him boosting the bass on the early mono mixes but EQ on Sgt. Pepper? - I wouldn't think so but then I haven't heard the master. Maybe it need a pull down of -1 db @ 500hz at a Q of 2. I don't know.

From what Steve Hoffman has heard of the master it is his belief that the 1987 is a flat dub. But then the 2009 release was transferred with more care and would sound different from the original compact disk.

check out the link below. It goes into graphic detail of how the 2009 project was done and some information about the 1987 transfers. Apparently some noise reduction was used on the 1987 Beatle CD's.

Remastering The Beatles |

 

I like the remix, sue me. It sounds loud and bassy, and maybe it's not a technically good remix, but I like the way it sounds. The clarity is astounding and the slightly overblown bass and huge sound are just what I like. It's not about what everyone else likes, it's what you like

 

Well put.

 

They might have been "transferred with more care", but that means diddly squat when they fold in the stereo image and do other stupid, excessive stuff in mastering.

And noise reduction was used on the 2009's as well. You can hear it in the intros of the songs.

 

I like the idea that the original version is still in circulation and that is additive.

With the exception of the ping pong sounds in Lucy, I like the new version.

 

2017 SPLHCB-- sounds like it's being played in a concert hall. For good or bad, I enjoy it. At least the mono came with the big box.

I do like the 2 cd version with the thick booklet. I will fire up 2017 vinyl tonight.

 

The new mix sounds more like a Flaming Lips album than a Beatles album

 

The new mix sounds like a Beatles BIG 80's recorded album. In some ways. Still enjoy it though. Just sayin..

 

I think those who have technical knowledge of recording techniques look and hear these through a different criteria. Normal music listeners don't have those hangups on how it should or should not have been done. I too like many remixed classic recordings that other plain out pan. If it sounds good to your senses, trust in you own abilities.

 

I got a copy of the RSD SFF/PL 45 recently and needledropped it, so I listened to it and the new mix again the other day out of curiosity.

It’s still just ear candy to me. Sounds neato briefly, but it just overwhelms after a few minutes. The original mix - flawed as it might be - is more musical to me. The new one seems better for the guys at Magnolia demoing mid-fi speakers in a sub-optimal environment though.

 

EMI guards the Beatles catalog with all they can.
Their not strangers to hi rez on hard discs and a dream I had was to have SACD/now Bluray of individual albums like with the mono album sleeves with the best audio with flat mixes 1987? and more dynamic mixes like the 2009 or 2017 Pepper mix. All this confusion is so corporate and tiring and the mass of consumers are dying off. Do the Beatles right, simple and with choice on 1 disc.
Naive I know but whatever, Thanks, John M., by the way those Crimson big box albums are what Im in favor of or the two disc smaller versions. The choices of different mixes is what is great with them.

 

The stereo image on the 2009 remastered CDs did not have their stereo image narrowed. I don't know about the vinyl. please find me a reliable source that mentions where the mastering team narrowed the stereo image. And the noise reduction is only used on cross fades and gaps. Less than 5% of the project. Funny on my Moon CD-1 I don't hear any noise reduction. Maybe you are hearing something else. Could you give me one clear example. If it's Nowhere Man - Listened ...Can't hear any noise reduction.

Didn't we have a whole post on this issue a while back?

 

If you consider @lukpac a reliable source, he found narrowing on the first four remastered albums. Unless I’m not remembering correctly.

 

Yes thank you but the person is a member here. He is not part of the mastering team. What ever he has found is his opinion. Does he have a link to some article? I clicked on your link and it led me to a member. This is not proof. And for what reason would the mastering team have for doing this? Why release the first two albums in original stereo? Hard left and hard right. Trust me on a good CD player / DAC like my Moon CD-1 those early albums are just as wide as the vintl. On a poor digital system...I am sure the image sounds narrowed.

 

I have given this some further thought sir. Maybe you are right. But it's was not done (if at all) intentionally but unintentionally I will explain. There is something in mastering called Mid-Side Eq. Not good ! This allows them to eq what is in the middle and sides without affecting the other. Lie! Ohh it does. It causes phase issues which would cause the narrowing some members have heard. I didn't want to dismiss your thoughts out of hand. It is possible this technique was used.

 

The first four albums certainly did. Several songs on AHDN are a smeared mess. It's obvious when you A/B them with the UK vinyl.

 

Yes, but in a very small concert hall, using amplification and equipment for a stadium gig..

 

Yep.

 

Yes, I did the test myself. But all that says it that analog vinyl has a bigger stereo soundstage than commercial compact disks. Have you ever heard a CD that had a stereo sound stage that matched good cut vinyl on a good turntable setup? I haven't.

I wouldn't say narrowed but the stereo sound stage is...ahh-hh...smaller. Our studio's 16/44.1 reduced client files for CD production have a way bigger stereo sound stage than the same title of the production CD you would buy in the store.

I remember listening to some Rush videos on Chronicles (VHS-Hi-Fi) way back in 1992. When I heard songs like: New World Man and Vital signs I thought they were remixes. Everything was so wide. A soundstage twice as big as the CD. I played my CD's (this was before Rush had remastered their catolog in the late 90's.) and realized they were the same. The AFM recoding system on the VHS HI-FI tape had revealed the full definition of the master. Whereas the compact disk was a poor copy - a shadow of the original. Back in the 80's when they transferred those tapes to a Sony 1630 they didn't narrow anything. The image got smeared courtesy of a 1988 Sony CD changer. True story: My Sony bragged on the front panel of the CD player in big bold red letters, " DUAL D/A CONVERTERS." Wow! A converter for the left and right channel. Up until 1987 DAC were too expensive to give the consumer two of them. All the mass market Japanese CD players had one converter. How did they pull the trick off? The converter decodes a bit of the left channel and then decodes a bit of the right, ad infinitum. This is all going on in nanoseconds. A delay circuit keeps two channels in synchronisation. But jitter is very high. The massive phase shifts cause a dramatic shrink of the stereo soundstage.

Again it will depend on the ability of your DAC. With my Moon CD-1 those albums have a huge soundstage. But if I compare it with the vinyl....Different story. If I have the same album on vinyl and CD the soundstage of the digitall media always sounds smeared by comparison. If CD sounded as good as analog we would all sell our turntables...Not the case.

The smearing is by accident. There is an overused tool in mastering called, Mid-Side Eq. They must have used it. If they wanted to eq the vocals, guitar, etc that is in the center without affecting the rest - Mid-Side Eq is the only way to do it. This technique is widely used in mastering (No, Steve doesn't use it.) and it is a good tool. But it's for masters that "stink" and when stems or remixes are not possible. And example is if there is way to much bass or kick in the mix. Mid-Side Eq is your only way to deal with the problem. This tool however can and does cause serious phase problems. It's over most of the modern compact disks you buy. They use it now like it's salt on fries. This will shrink your stereo image like air out of a balloon.

Once it's digital, keep it that way used to be a rule of digital recording. Not anymore. The Beatle analog masters were carefully transferred to Pro Tools in 24/192. And then all the edits, other stuff and surgical EQ (Mid-Side EQ destruction) were done. And then they did a D/A conversion to analog to apply all the analog eq and tube limiting (mostly used as a gain stage). And then....Back to digital in 24/44.1.
THAT'S 3 CONVERSIONS! Add the Mid-Side Eq and you get smeared stereo sound stage.

A good audiophile DAC will help with the smearing (we both) are hearing. But why should you or anyone haven to pay $1000 on U.S.B DAC or $1800 on a CD player just to get a proper stereo soundstage?

Never ascribe to malice to what you can put down to stupidity...

 

EMI no longers exists

 

In Spirit . john m.

 

The ONLY 1987 CD’s that were remixed especially for that project were Rubber Soul and Help.

Past Masters contained a variety of stereo mixes of singles that had appeared throughout the years, but none were specifically remixed for the 1987 release.

The Magical Mystery Tour CD was compiled from the 1967 UK stereo EP and from the 1971 stereo remixes previously done for the German Odeon reissue.

 

I just listened to the Remix again on vinyl for the first time since last summer, and I still love it. The album has never sounded so spacious and dense at the same time. I still maintain that I'll never go back to the anemic original stereo mix except for historical purposes.

And if I truly wanna get historical, I'll simply put on the mono version.

 

Love the original mono mixes and my Japanese pressing

 

I bought a copy of the vinyl yesterday for $12. Definitely not as bad as the cd