What happened to Blu-ray Audio?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by floyd, Mar 25, 2017.

  1. fuse999

    fuse999 Forum Resident

    Location:
    usa
    Even on a PS3?
     
  2. Sevoflurane

    Sevoflurane Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    Yes. If you play a WAV file on a PS3 it’ll output at its native sample rate assuming the PS3 is configured to output that, but a BD will only output at full res via HDMI.
     
    fuse999 likes this.
  3. quicksrt

    quicksrt Forum Resident

    Location:
    City of Angels
    They would have cared more than SACD or DVD-A, but the consumer is now over it all. The ship has sailed.
     
    Brother_Rael likes this.
  4. Blue Cactus

    Blue Cactus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Illinois
    With hi-rez formats? Never.
     
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  5. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    In the next few weeks I'll be receiving a box set which includes 4 Blu Rays (latest King Crimson mega-box), and another deluxe re-issue with a Blu Ray included (XTC's Black Sea).
     
    Billy Infinity likes this.
  6. genesim

    genesim Active Member

    Location:
    St. Louis
    You do have a point, but remember, the race could be long. We are in new waters. I am ready for anything, just giving an opposing view.

    Sometimes change comes from what us available. Sony has always been smart even if they have failed at tons of formats.
     
  7. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    I bear no ill will to Bluray. I thought it would be more successful than it has been and it is one of the better technical and operational implementations by Sony. They messed up SACD far more than anything in Bluray. But formats that are commercially introduced generally succeed or fail in the first 5 years. LPs, stereo, cassette tape, VHS, CDs, DVD, all were successful within 5 years. With internet coonectivity to TVs, monitors etc it is hard to see anyone attempting another video disk given the meh attitude about Bluray.
     
  8. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Blue-ray just had unfortunate timing. Hitting on the dawn of the netflix/streaming era..and the dawn of kids who would throw up at the thought of owning ANY physical media. Oh well.
     
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  9. genesim

    genesim Active Member

    Location:
    St. Louis
    And that is why bluray continues to grow.

    There is no competition. The next video disk 8k...12K....it will all be bluray.
     
  10. genesim

    genesim Active Member

    Location:
    St. Louis
    And we are to base our future on fickle kids?

    Netflix will implode, the writing is on the wall. Their debts are mounting.

    Disney throwing their hat in the ring just may be a ploy to crush netflix like microsoft tried with the fake HDDVD support.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  11. norliss

    norliss Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Cardiff, Wales
    The beauty of Blu-ray (and DVD-Audio) is that it's fairly easy to rip and extract the audio to files that you can play/stream from a server. The problem with SA-CD is it's more of a PITA unless you have exactly the right kit.... which I currently don't :shake:
     
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  12. Jwest97

    Jwest97 New Member

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    I suppose so. Just thought it would be funny. I ended up getting a killer deal on my NAD M55, which I know is part of their top end Master series line and originally sold for $1800. I just don't see a point in upgrading to an M56 for Blu-Ray Audio. At one point I had a really low end Sony that I got for $25, but it wasn't working properly on Hybrid Discs, so I gave it to my dad for his Redbook CD's.
     
  13. marcb

    marcb Forum Resident

    Location:
    DC area
    Gee, if $60 is a good point then free would be a great point, no? It ain' happen' at $60 - in any format.
    It's barely - if at all - more of a PITA if you have the right gear.
     
  14. Tullman

    Tullman I prefer analog

    Location:
    Boston MA
    What are you talking about? Who said $60.? I have some blu-ray discs and they were around $30 and less.
     
    Bill Mac likes this.
  15. marcb

    marcb Forum Resident

    Location:
    DC area
    See your post #324. Genesim did - and you replied to the bolded part of his post and agreed with him (sorry for my $60 typo, it was an even more delusional $50).

    Yes, I have BDs that even cost less than $20. But not Elvis and not the entire Elvis catalog.

    My point was physical music product (CD's, BDs, etc) are like the inverse of a fountain drink where the cup costs more than the syrup and carbonated water. With physical music product, the discs and packaging are actually a small fraction of the cost of the package. 1 disc or 60 discs - the difference in the cost of the actual discs is fairly insignificant. The far bigger cost is publishing and recouping the audio production costs. And that's not happening for $50.
     
  16. genesim

    genesim Active Member

    Location:
    St. Louis
    Lets take a look at this from a streaming perspective. For fees subscribers are often getting access to entire catalogs...and crap quality.

    The packaging, and most importantly the space that a package takes up is not just a small fraction of the cost. This is why stores don't stock like crazy and choose to throw all those CD's/DVD's at discount prices in dumpster bins and wonder why they don't sell (though they still do actually).

    In many of the cases, the money has been spent already on the mastering process. It is a matter of time before bulk is put out on 1 disc, and 1 space at a discount price. It is already happening with these "complete" sets, but again, the packaging, the space, the weight...it all adds up.

    When you say it is not happening at 50 bucks how do you figure? Black friday sales of huge box sets prove this wrong. Thousands of thousands of hours at minimal prices.

    What is better, to completely lose out or to actually take a chance and offer what people want all along. Discount pricing and complete catalogs.

    I agree that the discs themselves are a small part of it, but the space on web pages, the space on the floor or shelves, and even the time of the consumer, that is what we are talking about here.

    Lets take my Elvis example. Let us say you put all the artwork digitally and knock off 80 dollars on that price and release as is on 1 disc on bluray which is still a thriving format. There is no question that it would sell far better. Because again, we are talking bang for buck. Put some silly digital copy that allows you to port the music, and while it creates a secondary market, it is still a selling point.

    Do enough things like this, bluray players in cars would become more of a reality. No screen needed, just play the disc at full quality and it be of commercial grade and no online needed either. But yes, I can dream until that day happens. For me, I am not waiting.

    Of course if they keep going the high def only route, customers just aren't going to care. Again it goes back to bang for buck...and as far as it not happening...get the studios hungry enough for cash anything is possible. In times like the music market crashing, any idea can and does get a shot.

    People said video games were dead back in the day when Atari crashed along with the all the arcades with it. Sure Atari crashed, but Activision is alive and well as you well know from Call of Duty to Guitar Hero. In my opinion that have already outstayed their welcome. Nintendo came out of those ashes too. Matter of fact, despite almost 10 years of dismal sales video games have come back so hard, it is like the crash never happened.
     
  17. marcb

    marcb Forum Resident

    Location:
    DC area
    You completely miss the point and are just engaging in wishful thinking.

    You're not getting a personal copy of 60 hours (or whatever it is) of music that is still copyright protected - especially someone like Elvis Presley - for $50. It is not going to happen. If they were to do it on a single BD, it would be a similar price to the CD box set (or more, if at higher res). With the relatively small (not thriving) market for BD-As and the number of potentially interested people who would balk at the $180 price tag of a single blu-ray disc (for different, but equally, nonsensical reasons as expecting it to be $50), a single BD with the entire catalog likely isn't going to happen at any profitable price.

    However human illogic being what it is, IMO people might pony up for a high-rez download at $250 or $300 - if it's marketed as 60 discs rather than 1, so consumers believe they're getting value.

    The number of discs (be it 1 or 60) or the delivery mechanism (be it BD or CD or download) or the mastering quality (be it good or bad) is largely irrelevant to price because the real cost that mostly sets the price is the publishing cost of those 500 or 600 songs and the cost of production (since bad mastering can be expensive too).
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 8:31 PM
  18. genesim

    genesim Active Member

    Location:
    St. Louis
    Do you have a crystal ball and know what the future holds? I have seen prices come down to rock bottom on lots of things. Ok, maybe not Elvis. But the point stands for equal volume of maybe a less popular artist. Wishful thinking, you bet.

    And you do not know that anymore than I do.

    And again, you do not know that. I never thought that 60 CD box set would be down to basically $3 dollars a CD, but it is. I never thought that 200 dollar bluray sets would go for as little as 30 bucks but they have. Time has a way of bringing down prices. I am sorry that you have not seen the examples like on Amazon lightning deals.

    And again as "nonsensical" as you think it is, there is all signs pointing to bulk storage and the falling prices of disc packages making that an absolute possibility, and the market crystal ball prophecy predictors have no more a grasp on that than the claim that you think I do not.

    No actually I think consumers are far more likely to see 60 discs as even more wasted space, which it is. You don't need 60 discs to do high res content. Most catalogs even fit on one disc at high res. 100gb disc (and word is that they can easily go to a terabyte in the not too distant future) will have wasted space when stretched out to 60. And you say my logic is nonsensical? Content is what is valued and that is and will always be the case....at least for the collector's market (though I don't argue for swag, there is always that).

    Actually as history as shown, huge collections of sets that are no longer moving huge units have a way of being discounted beyond all they were originally charged for. Look no further than the PC game market for exact examples.

    Look, we can agree to disagree without the charges of your wrong or I am wrong. They are both just opinions, but the facts are that Sony has proven that it takes but a minute to whip out Elvis at discount prices. What took RCA the better part of a half a century, Sony scooped up and did in a few years. Bluray is Sony's baby and you don't think the space is going to be utilized? It would not surprise me one bit that the FTD series can and will be discounted on a few discs.

    Now just do me a favor. When it happens, don't do like so many in this world and deny where you heard it first. When you see it and digest it, come back and at least think of who preached it to you?

    I once predicted multiple pixel emulation that would eliminate the need for CRT collecting (down to the "glare" which is not part of the original programming), and I just laugh myself silly at the video games forums that argued and argued with me on the fact that it would never happen. To see it now, all I can say is glad that it happened, the same as I will be saying with the bulk music transfers to bluray.
     
  19. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    So. ME USA
    I'm not sure what happened to Blu-ray Audio but this thread might cause it's demise :D.
     
  20. marcb

    marcb Forum Resident

    Location:
    DC area
    You keep waiting on those $50 Elvis catalogs. Let us know how it goes.
     
  21. genesim

    genesim Active Member

    Location:
    St. Louis
    Did I ever say they will get to $50"? Matter of fact, I said the opposite.

    I did say how they would sell well if it ever happened. Why would I be "waiting on those..."?

    You keep waiting on those 60 bluray box sets for $300 that you would rather have.
     
  22. Uninspiring titles, poor mastering (similar to the first round of catalogue dumps during the beginning of the CD era), little to no bonus content (doesn't bother me one iota but I tend to be "outside the box" type of person here) ,lacklustre packaging and stupidly inflated prices. These all contributed to its demise.

    There are the odd exceptions of course with the XTC remastered catalogue being a particularly noteworthy example but these contain CD's along with the BD-A. That is also a key issue with physical format hoarders.
     
  23. genesim

    genesim Active Member

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I am intrigued by the INXS Kick album with the bluray bonus. This is a step in the right direction, though still several CD's still weighing the box down. ;)
     
    SteveM likes this.
  24. Tullman

    Tullman I prefer analog

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I didn't mention any money in the post. I did agree that putting 60 Elvis cds on one blu-ray for $60 was a good point.
     
  25. genesim

    genesim Active Member

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I know its like where is the threshold? Is $80 out of the ordinary?

    I don't get the logic behind what is unreasonable. Shipping cost and packaging play a big role. That is tangible savings.

    This yap about licensing is forgetting that suppliers were a big part of the mark up. Licensing itself as the independents have proven are not always prohibitive at discount prices.

    While companies like laserlight or mills creek are not exactly the height of quality, their bulk attitude has been successful.

    Sony has been bulking up and in the case of Elvis have been selling its premium content for pennies. This idea that they wouldn't throw it on one disc is perplexing. Watch it happen and just don't be surprised.

    Blurays have a hard time getting to 60 discs on complete runs of shows, why or how would that be needed for high def sound? Not that most of the buying public care. Give 48khz on bluray and it will no doubt sell if it says "complete".
     

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