What is "fast" sounding? Looking for opinions

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Prea, Nov 20, 2019.

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  1. Prea

    Prea Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    44125
    I would like to understand what listening experience is being described when some says that a cable or piece of audio equipment sounds "fast". I have heard this description used and can't quite wrap my head around it.

    I can understand how the source of audio playback might be sped up, but for the sake of my question I am assuming that a song that is 4 minuets long is playing from the audio source at exactly the same rate and finishes in 4 minutes during an A/B test. So my question is how something like a cable that is in the middle of the sound path can "seem" to speed up the sound when it would be quite impossible to really be speeding up the sound.

    If you have performed tests or feel like you have heard speaker cables, for example, that you would describe as sounding "fast", please elaborate on what that audio experience is to you. I am also interested in your scientific theory behind what you think might be happening in the cables to cause it. For example, do you think the higher frequencies are traveling faster and therefore creating the ever so sight timing difference.
     
  2. oxenholme

    oxenholme Senile member

    Location:
    Knoydart
    I'm fascinated by some descriptions - "fast" especially. I am hoping that it pertains to the circuitry and the loudspeakers being able to respond instantaneously to the input signal with zero latency and zero deviation - i.e. process it 100% accurately.
     
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  3. Echoes Myron

    Echoes Myron Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    It doesn't mean the music is sped up...the term refers to well-defined transients.
     
  4. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Put a blanket over your speakers, that's "slow". Take your speaker grills off and replace your cables with higher quality ones, that's "fast".
     
  5. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Forum Resident

    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Resonances in speakers and room, especially bass, may sound boomy and smear details. Perhaps this may be referred to as slow.
     
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  6. Pete Norman

    Pete Norman Forum Resident

    approaching the speed of light....
     
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  7. enfield

    enfield Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex UK
    Have had equipment that made the music sound faster.Some equipment that made the music sound slower.Especially in the bass.These are digital devices so actual speed variations cannot be at play.
     
  8. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    My guess, based on having read that description a lot, is that typically in the context you describe people are using the word to characterize the sound of transients and dynamics -- a sense of suddenness, crispness and transparency with respect to transient attacks and dynamic swings, and, to a lesser degree, a tight, rapid (but not unnatural) transient decay in the bass without boomy, detail-masking time overhang.

    This may or may not have to do with actual things related to speed -- like the slew rate of a piece of electronics, or the velocity of propagation of a cable, or the rotational speed of a turntable.

    There's also the psychological experience that @enfield describes where a piece of equipment makes a listener feel like the pace of the music has changed, even though it hasn't. I've had that experience sometimes, usually the music seems slower, not faster, but I'm not sure what if anything in an actually piece of equipment it could be attributed to or even if the psychological effect is persistant: when I switch back, I don't necessarily perceive the music as getting faster. I think it's just a momentary psychoacoustic response to something that's changed, but obviously it doesn't actually describe the change since the tempo and time of the music hasn't changed.
     
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  9. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    I presume that some of the answers given in terms of stop/start are spot on but I say PRAT and the perception of a musical performance.

    My first experience of this was my Naim amp, which was mind blowing, tracks I new very well took on a whole new meaning, the sense is a great tribute act verses the real thing. The musicians are more accomplished and appear to be playing to a different groove with the music apparently being played faster or sometimes slower.

    To me this attribute is what distinguishes a great system.
     
  10. dennem

    dennem Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bangkok, Thailand
    yes, and here’s the video that not only explains this clearly, but also shows examples of what audiophiles call “fast” and “slow” sound:

     
  11. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    If people are describing cables as sounding "fast", it's hokum, just a made up audiophile term that means nothing - ignore it.

    If people are talking about the slew rate of a particular piece of electronics, how sensitive a phono cartridge is, or a speaker driver, mastering software effects like in the video upthread, different story.

    In general, caveat emptor when people start throwing out a bunch of made up, pseudo-technical terms like PRAT and the like, the B.S. detector should be on red alert.
     
  12. mtrot

    mtrot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tyler, TX
    It seems to me that any detectable "speed" mostly has to do with an actual transducer that is tasked with physical movement, i.e., the speaker. What I tend to notice is a sense of "immediacy" to the sound.
     
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  13. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I think of fast in this context as meaning effortless.
     
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  14. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    The term PRAT is only a shorthand descriptor, to describe this effect, which is how human language transmits ideas.
     
  15. hi_watt

    hi_watt The Road Warrior

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I'm more of an "immediacy" man myself.
     
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  16. Claus

    Claus Senior Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Listen to different drivers and your the difference btw fast and slow ;)
     
  17. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    Well the perception of time is a illusion, so the music appearing to be faster or slower will be due to the speed of the information and in particular how defined those notes stop and start, this ability is noticeably different between pieces of equipment, so I'd say it exists.
     
  18. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    The terms fast vs slow were often used when people described subwoofers. Cheap ported subwoofer can sound muddy, thus termed "slow". Quality sealed sub typically is much cleaner, thus termed "fast".
     
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  19. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head!

    Location:
    Belgium
    Depends on what car you are driving when listening to music :rolleyes:...
     
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  20. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Mine is always fast....:D
     
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  21. dougotte

    dougotte Petty, Annoying Dilettante

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    That was very interesting. Thanks for the link.

    It made me realize that I completely misunderstood transients. I was thinking of transients not as the original attack, but the subsequent decay of a sound.

    When I describe the quality of transients, I'm describing how the recording/equipment present the decay through time, through the soundstage, and amongst other conflicting sounds. I'll try to be more accurate going forward.

    Sorry that I can't add anything to the original topic about "fast."
     
  22. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Articulate, accurate bass, and a clear but not shrill treble. Not warm sounding.
     
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  23. Meehael

    Meehael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Slovenia
    I had a fast sounding amp Technics su-v9 that I liked a lot becouse of it. Needed a recap so got rid of it. Turned out it's high slew rate I'm looking for in an amp.
     
  24. Wardsweb

    Wardsweb Audio Enthusiast

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    I wouldn't get too caught up in all the terminology. The bottom line is, the only person who has to like your stereo is you. We all hear different, we like different things, and we listen for different things. You may not even know what you call, what it is, that you like. Audio is an education that takes time and homework to begin to understand. At first, it's like drinking from a fire hose. Take your time and enjoy. I have often said, "while the ultimate destination is audio nirvana, don't forget to enjoy the ride."
     
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  25. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Fast, as I use it, is about the amp controlling the drivers well so that they have a quick recovery (stop moving). Acoustic suspension mounted drivers come to mind and high damping factors if you like that term. It can also relate to the driver material—TPX vs hemp vs doped paper—whatever; these materials have weight and gravity. Some are indeed lighter and faster to initially respond but also quick to stop moving as required.
     
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