What is the best way to upload vinyl to the computer for mastering to CD?

No. I was thinking maybe Mike does.

 

NO Grant. I just want my Beatles or any other vinyl rips to sound similar to any CD tracks I'm putting on a mix CD-R. Again, the rip of "Thank You Girl" is on par with Luke's rips, but sounds a tad dull next to the other tracks on the Beatles comp disc I made. Maybe as Luke suggested it's a combination of The Beatles Beat album being a tad dull, (I believe Luke and I have the same pressing, 062) and the Fabulous Sound Labs CDs being a bit bright.

 

Well, just use a bit of EQ to get them all to sit together. That's part of mastering.

 

Thank you. And here lies my issue. Don't really know how to use the EQ in Cool Edit Pro. I tried once or twice, as Luke calls it, "smiley face" EQ, in the graphic equalizer but didn't get the result I was looking for. I also tried a couple of things in the parametric equalizer and again, didn't get the sound I was after, which is to brighten the song a bit, particularly with Ringo's drums. I need to play around some more with the equalizers and hopefully find a sound my ears enjoy.

 

I've found that it doesn't take much adjusting with the eq to notice big changes - take little steps. You can preview the music and click the little "bypass" radio-button to hear the difference before committing to the "OK" button.

Joel

 

If you have tha manual, it gives you a general idea of where certain instruments and vocals fall within the frequency spectrum. "Smiley face" EQ is done by those who don't know what they are doing. Another guideline is to cut, not add, particularly if you are working on 16-bit files. Why? Because boosting frequencies increases the risk of clipping, which is a no-no in digital. Make small changes until you hear results. Again, big increases of several db is drastic, and usually done by those who don't know what they are doing.

Graphic EQ is done for general changes in frequencies. Parametric is usually used for more exact EQ within octaves.

I can't hear the brightness that you are trying to cut, of course, but I sggest starting around 6-8kHz.

 

Grant, I'm trying to add brightness, brighten up the song. Um, I don't have a manual.

 

Same difference. The graphic EQ can be a tremendous help.

But, Try the FFT filter. It may give you the results you want.

Personally, I either use an exciter called "High Frequency Stimulator" plug-in for Cool Edit, the Sound Forge "Smooth/Enhance" Direct-X plug-in, and the Cool EDit FFT filter, along with their graphic EQ.

If one is creative enough, one can find all kinds of ways to brighten a track.

 

Grant, I've been using LP Recorder as a convenient way to set the recording level on LP transfers, and then using CoolEdit 2.0 to examine the wav files and make minor adjustments (eg. normalisation). I haven't tried using CoolEdit itself to capture the LP audio, but Ireckon it sounds worth a go - I have discovered that LP Recorder, using its "auto level" function, still creates files that at recorded at way too high a level - clipping and distortion still find their way in.

Can you give any tips on how to record LP audio through CoolEdit? I am pretty new to the software. I was particularly intrigued by your comment that you can capture in 32-bit float using CoolEdit - does this mean you have to have a specific type of sound card? I'm using my on-board audio, a RealTek chip that is 18-bit, I believe. Could this still be used to capture in 32-bit float using CoolEdit?

Thanks...

 

I don't know how LP Recorder works, but CoolEdit's recording simply uses the soundcards settings - levels and all which have to be set first using, with my Soundblaster, the SB Mixer program (where, all the settings, inputs and levels are adjusted or turned on/off).

Since my SB Live is 16 bit only, I assume that CoolEdit up-converts to 32 bit during recording for wave file editing and display purposes. But playback, of course, down-converts back to 16 bit.

Until I can get a card that records in 32 bit natively...

Joel

 

Joel and Paul,

There is no card that will record at 32-bit. 24-bit will do. Cool Edit can convert your 16-bit input to 32-bit float on the fly if you desire it to do so. You can also record at 24-bit, if desired, but 32-bit is the better option in that case.

In general, you want to keep your sound as high as possible without clipping. But, if you do, Cool Edit and other sound editors have a tool called a declipper. It will literally remove your clipped peaks to eliminate distortion. If you either record at 32-bit float, or convert to 23-bit float, you must remain at or under 0FS. But, once you are there, you can literally clip to your heart's content without distortion! You may not be able to play it, but you WILL NOT CLIP! But when the time comes to dither down to 16-bit for CD-R, you MUST get your peaks at or below 0 first, or you WILL ruin your work!

32-bit Normalized Float (type 3) is what you want to use for compatability with, say, Sound Forge, as it is the standard, and is now standard for Cool Edit 2.0. You can use this format in the older Cool Edit versions as well.

32-bit Float (16.8) is the old format used in Cool Edit 1.2 and 2000 and is NOT compatible with anything else. Nothing wrong with it, though.

 

Grant,

Thanks for the clarification.

Maybe no cards can record in 32bit yet, but some day...

I'm assuming that recording 16bit and having Cooledit upconvert to 32 is better because of the fact that 32 is an even multible of 16?

And, Yes, I record in 32-bit Normalized Float when going through CEP. I've got the recoding levels maxed out and I've yet to hit the 0dbfs ceiling. I have come close with a few 12" 45's though (which tend to be a little louder anyway) - the closest was up to 95%

Joel

 

That's perfect! 95% is great. You can process till the cows come home without concern for levels or clipping, as 32-bit float has unlimited dynamic range! You cannot lose sound quality. If you have to convert it to 24-bit for some application, you still don't lose anything, but then you no longer have that unlimited dynamic range and you must again keep your wave at or under 100%. No dither is used until you go down below 24-bit.

When you initially record that music into Cool edit, you don't want to set your levels too low because you will be wasting bits and your file will actually be 14-bit, not 16-bit.

Do understand that when you record at 32-bit float or convert to 32-bit float, you still have a 16-bit recording but you are now processing with 32-bit resolution. You may even detect a slight more openness in the 32-bit file, but it is still just 16-bit. But this way, you don't loose resolution. This is whay it is not a good idea to do all of your processing in 16-bit. Oh, you can do it. I do sometimes, but you must be very careful how much processing you do.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying Grant. How can 32-bit have "unlimited" dynamic range? You're still working in a finite space...

Same with sound quality - you've got more room to work with things, but *any* time you do floating-point math something gets "lost". You'll lose a lot less in 32-bit than in 16-bit, but you'll still lose stuff.

 

No. Try it yourself! Convert to 32-bit float. Normalize up to, say, 800%. Then normalize to where you were before. You wind up with the exact same thing you started out with.

 

I'm not good at explaining this, but it's because 32-bit *float* is not 32 linear bits, but 24^8. So there are 24 linear bits for the signal, and another exponential 8 for the range. This gives an absolutely absurd dynamic range. If you do transforms in the digital domain that go way, way above 0dB, you can normalize down and there will be zero clipping. As Grant suggested, try it and see.

It's not technically unlimited... but a 1500dB range is parsecs beyond any real-world limitations.

 

Here is an mp3 of "Can't By Me Love" taken from my Beatles - Beat blue Odeon vinyl. I could have put up Thank You Girl, the song in question, but those who downloaded Luke's CBML can make a direct comparison. On its own, I think it sounds great and pretty much identical to Luke's. Next to the Fabulous Sound Labs HDCD tracks, it sounds a bit dull.

Turntable - Thorens TD 166 Mk II
Cartridge - Grado (mid-level)
Amp - Hitachi HTA-7000 Stereo Tuner Amplifier

 

Grant or someone - can you tell me how you specify 32-bit normalised float for recording in CoolEdit Pro? I am fairly new to this program, and do not profess to understand a lot of what you've been talking about - but I am determined to learn!

I was pleased with the results I got on my first LP to CD transfer - I had to do a lot of test runs to get the record levels just right. I found that the wave form appeared to be clipped unless I wound the level right down. Not that I could hear any distortion. It was only when I had the level way too high that audible distortion crept in on some bass-heavy passages.

So are you saying that I could record at 32-bit float and be less fussed about getting the level precisely set to avoid clipping? Then down sample to 16-bit and get optimum levels withour clipping?

BTW, if you record at 32-bit float, are your .wav files going to be a lot bigger than when recording at 16-bit?

 

If you over drive the sound card's input 32-bit float isn't going to help with that.

 

Sgraham's right. You must remain below 0, or 100% when recording into Cool Edit regardless of the bit-depth you use. It is only after you have finished recording, and have a 32-bit float file can you ignore the levels. But, when you go to 16-bit you MUST get your waves within the window or you will clip.

When you go to record, just select 32-bit float as an option.

 

PS: thanks for the 32-bit tip, Grant. I wasn't aware of it, and I just tried it (deliberately boosting beyond clipping then reducing by the same amount. It works. Amazing. Cool!

 

By using 32-bit float, you can concentrate on your work without having to consider staying within the boundries.

It's a fun way to shock people!

 

I'm still a bit unclear on this way of working. Last night I played around with CoolEdit, and set the option to automatically convert wav files when opened to 32-bit - this created a wav file that was twice the size of the 16-bit files I have been working with before.

Obviously, in order to subsequently create a CD-R using one of these files that I've converted to 32-bit float, I will need to sample back down to 16-bit - this is the part that i am a bit unclear about. ie. in converting back to 16-bit, which options should I select? I assume I must dither, but with what settings? I also assume that noise-shaping is out??? And how do I convert to 16-bit ensuring that my levels don't get clipped?

Sorry for the 50 questions...

 

1) Yes, you have the option of using noise shaping with that dither. It's your personal choice. But you MUST use dither, or you'll be sorry!

2) yes, 32 is 16x2, so your files will be twice as large. If you have the hard drive space, no big deal...

3) Just make sure your files are no higher than 100%, or 0db BEFORE you convert to 16-bit.

 

Thanks Grant - I'll play around with the dither settings, and see what i think.

One thing I was wondering - if I capture an LP at 16-bit and don't actually do anything to the wav file (ie. no noise reduction, normailsation, etc.), and just burn that file to CD-R, will the result be any better or worse than what I would get from converting to 32-bit float and then dithering back to 16-bit for burning?