What kind of amp should I upgrade to?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by 12" 45rpm, May 17, 2018.

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  1. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    As stated, I've purchased several times from Canadian sellers and that's not been my experience. I've never had any additional tax added. And surprisingly, the shipping has been reasonable. I once bought a large pair of speakers from a seller in Ontario and I'd say the shipping was less than buying from a US west coast seller. YMMV
     
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  2. lonelysea

    lonelysea Ban Leaf Blowers

    Location:
    The Cascades
    The modern Yamaha A-S integrateds are a great value. Nice natural sound, even at lower volumes.
     
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  3. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Just warning him it can happen. Doesn't mean it will, though. :)
     
    timind likes this.
  4. Jack Flannery

    Jack Flannery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Exactly what I was going to say. Vsn1 sounded great to me.
     
  5. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I never liked the sound of entry-level Onkyos, Yamahas, or Denons - most are very bright with little bottom end...well, that's actually been my experience with all amps from Onkyo and their Integra line.

    I started out with a cheap Yamaha A/V receiver I bought at a Radio Shack for about $150. It became the victim of a power surge and I ended up replacing it with a Yamaha R-S500 2 channel receiver. It was a revelation. My inexpensive speakers at the time morphed into completely different animals. Aside from mobile audio, that piece was ultimately responsible for infecting me with the hi-fi bug.

    I began reading some great reviews of the A-S500 integrated and bought one to replace the R-S. That was a bit of a lateral move, at least for the speakers I had at the time.

    I stuck with the A-S500 through multiple system upgrades because it just doesn't have any real faults - only those of ommission. The next amp was the Rogue Sphinx 2. By that time I was using Monitor Audio Silver 8 speakers. The Rogue was actually a downgrade for me in that it gave up bass and musicality for a slight boost in resolution. Eventually it was the Parasound Halo Integrated and subsequent demos of some ultra high-end gear that led me to realize there's a very sharp point of diminishing returns once you get past the $2K mark. Even so, I still own the A-S500 and enjoy it immensely. It currently powers my KEF LS50s (not easy speakers to drive). There's basically nothing the amp does wrong - it only lacks that last bit of air, soundstage width/depth and instrument separation.

    It's hard to quantify these things, but IME, the A-S500 (currently the A-S501) manages to achieve 80% of the performance of the best amps I've heard.

    I think the A-S501 or the Outlaw RR2160 that Strat Mangler suggested are probably 2 of the best values near your budget.

    The Yamaha integrateds use an uncommon circlotron circuit design, which in laymen's terms means it helps to remove a lot of system noise from the final signal. You won't get any benefit from using a power conditioner with these amps because they simply won't amplify any of that crud in the first place. One reason they have such an incredibly low noise floor.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  6. Bathory

    Bathory 30 yr Single Malt, not just for breakfast anymore

    Location:
    usa
    QSC or Crown

    had the studio ref for a while, was great, but the QSC PL-340 whipped its butt.
     
  7. Guildx500

    Guildx500 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I think the Brio is supposed to run very hot when you put a 4 ohm load on it.
     
  8. searing75

    searing75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Western NY
    Since your a music guy, why not get a Mcintosh amp!
     
  9. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Your speaker specs recommend minimum amp power of 50 WPC, plus - they're 4 Ohm, and draw more power than 8 Ohm speakers. To answer your question - NO, a simple 20 WPC amp will not be a good match for your speakers, it's a clear case for clipping. Even at the minimum 50 WPC, it may not be the optimal performance - your speakers are capable of a lot more than 50 WPC can deliver, even if you play at low levels.

    I will join the camp of people recommending the Rogue Sphinx 2, if you can swing the $1,400.00 tag. Or - used you can find them for $800-900. It's 100 WPC, has tubes in the circuit for additional warmth (you may love it with vinyl), and a decent built-in phono, plus 4 Ohm taps.

    The NAD combo you asked about may not be too much of an upgrade from what you already have. Plus you don't know the condition and expected longevity of eBay gear.
     
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  10. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Again, the OP is looking to spend between 400-600. You're adding a zero.
     
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  11. HankM

    HankM Senior Member

    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Couldn't have said it better myself. I've been through lateral moves myself in this hobby throughout my younger years. Once I became older and a little wiser, and thanks to the good folks on this forum I have made some changes in my own system that really paid off. When its time to make an upgrade you should make an upgrade that is a big improvement. In the end, it will save you money and you'll enjoy your hi-fi even more.
     
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  12. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    I got a Simaudio Moon a few months ago and really like it. It has a phono-stage, as well as a good DAC.
     
  13. mkane

    mkane Strictly Analog

    Location:
    Auburn CA
  14. Bathory

    Bathory 30 yr Single Malt, not just for breakfast anymore

    Location:
    usa
    SandAndGlass and Helom like this.
  15. mkane

    mkane Strictly Analog

    Location:
    Auburn CA
    Apparently you have very little hands-on experience with Class D
     
  16. Bathory

    Bathory 30 yr Single Malt, not just for breakfast anymore

    Location:
    usa
    i have heard many, many class d amps, they are all missing something. everyones ears are different. they are not at all for me. they sound like they are missing the top portion of the spectrum, ( all cymbals / and higher freq)
    bland.

    i heard them through good speakers from a demo as well, songs faber, macintosh/psb and others. i just didn't like their tone. it reminded me of a old onkyo receiver i had back in 1986. lifeless.

    my ears can tell a difference, when i use my class A/B amp, i get all that back in spades, the airiness, the cymbals, the higher freq is back. maybe my ears are damaged from the past 25 years of sitting next to screaming Diesel engines 8-12 hrs a day 6 days a week.
     
  17. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    My experience has been that they have plenty of air and treble extension, but no midrange body - no "meat on the bones" so to speak. They can be surgically precise while turning speakers into ear drills. I have yet to come across one, hybrid or otherwise, that I can listen to for more than an hour before fatigue sets in.
     
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  18. Bathory

    Bathory 30 yr Single Malt, not just for breakfast anymore

    Location:
    usa









    i thought the midrange was average. lacking highs.

    see everyones ears ARE different. enjoy the ride.
     
    Helom likes this.
  19. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    Yaqin MC- 100B tube amp. Needs a phono stage. Use Sylvania 6SN7GTA and RCA 12AX7 black plates. The sound will floor you.
     
  20. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Mine is a Cambridge Audio Azur 851A, class xD. That is - first 10 W are in pure Class A, then it goes to Class D. Suffice it to say, I like it more when it's in Class A...
     
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  21. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident

    Location:
    Spokane
    Agree here. The Yamaha integrated amps are total sleepers for many on these forums. Though I believe the circlotron 'floating and balanced' design is only the case for the A-S1000/2000, and the newer A-S1100/2100/3000.
     
  22. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    That may be, though the entry-level units do float the ground and have extremely low noise
     
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  23. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I have an R-S201 receiver. It won't win any medals, but it's a competent unit that I could live with if I had nothing better.
     
  24. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    No problem then! I'll PM you my banking info so you can wire transfer me $17,842.37 and I'll built you a custom tube amp...

    I recently heard PrimaLunas at the lovely Upscale Audio, driving Focal 936s in one room (separates) and Monitor Audio Silver 300s in the other room (integrated, PrimaLuna Prologue I believe). Both setups sounded great. One had a "bad" indicator light for each individual tube.* Now, would those sounds better than if you plugged your Onkyo in? That's a VERY good question. In general, tube amps will sound different, due to a higher output impedance, which can significantly affect the frequency response of the speakers. There are other hypothesized factors for the sound difference-different distortion and clipping characteristics, transformer core effects, etc.

    *I would think that with a good quality tube in a good quality design, not driven ultra hard all the time, the tubes should last a long time before needing replacement. Tube amps I had in the past, I actually never changed the tubes, though those were old (given me by my uncle) and maybe those tubes were better than today's?
     
  25. sturgus

    sturgus Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis Mo
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