"What number is this, Chip?" - 50 Years of The Birds, The Bees and The Monkees

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mBen989, Apr 18, 2018.

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  1. mBen989

    mBen989 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Scranton, PA
    It was fifty years this Sunday* that The Birds, The Bees and The Monkees was released.

    [​IMG]

    You probably know my topic questions by now, but just in case you don't, here they are.

    When did you first hear this album?
    What did you think?
    Has this opinion changed at all?
    How many copies of this album do you have?

    Actually, a new relevant question; what do you think of the outtakes of this period?

    * Which means I'm early this time instead of being late as I was with Pisces.
     
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  2. Humbuster

    Humbuster Staff Emeritus

    First heard "album" tracks "The Poster" and "Zor and Zam" played on top 40 station, WABC in metro New York area when the album was about to be released.
    I was initially surprised album was released so quickly after PAC&J, but that was the norm back then,

    Really enjoyed "Writing Wrongs" at the time, now no so much.

    Nesmith had 4 writing credits on the album which I am sure he appreciated from a royalty standpoint.
    3 of those songs came on side 1! I always wondered why he had Micky sing "Aunties"; perhaps the suits thought 3 Mike vocals may have been too much on 1 side. However, with Tork absent from this album, I would have preferred as many Nez performances as possible.

    Still prefer PACJ, Head and Headquarters over this album.
     
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  3. FredV

    FredV Senior Member

    Always liked this album, the Nesmith tracks are among my favorites of his Monkees songs, ‘Auntie’s Municipal Court’ has a great Byrds feel to it. I feel the Davy tracks are not that bad, really like him on ‘The Poster’.

    Of the outtakes I think Peter’s ‘Come On In’ and ‘Ladies Baby’ should have been included, his only contribution on the album as released is his piano part on ‘Daydream Believer’ which had already come out as a single in 1967.

    I have Colgems and Rhino vinyl copies of the album, two regular cd versions, one from the complete albums set, and the Rhino box set which includes the Mono version and outtakes. I also have a ‘Birds & Bee’ album cover signed by all four Monkees.
     
  4. monotone

    monotone I know noothing.

    Location:
    HEL/FIN
  5. Colocally

    Colocally One Of The New Wave Boys

    Location:
    Surrey BC.
    Alright, you don't have to get excited man, just because I'm short.
     
  6. minerwerks

    minerwerks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    I'm not completely positive, but I believe I did not hear this album in its original form until the 1994 Rhino CD. I skipped it during the 80s vinyl campaign and Arista stopped their US CD campaign with Pisces as I was starting to build a CD collection. By the point where I heard the CD, I was familiar with most of the tracks from the Listen to the Band box set (where I came to really like "Auntie's Municipal Court" and "P.O. Box 9847") or compilations like Hit Factory (where I first heard the odd non-TV arrangement of "I'll Be Back Upon My Feet"). "The Poster," "Magnolia Simms," "We Were Made For Each Other," and "Writing Wrongs" would be the tracks that I would have become familiar with only after getting the CD, and that's the order (most to least) that I prefer the songs. "Writing Wrongs," I really only listen to if I'm playing a vinyl copy or making notes on my collection. It's not a song I run to skip, it just doesn't do much for me.

    Considering the way I experienced a lot of the tracks on this album for the first time, it's not surprising that I consider it a not truly cohesive hodgepodge of songs. "Daydream Believer" was already months old and the Chip Douglas influence is missing from the rest of the LP. The Davy Jones tracks leaned a bit twee; the Nesmith tracks leaned a bit esoteric. Overall, the album exudes a kind of late-60s heaviness that was never really my cup of tea (I prefer the stuff the Who did BEFORE Tommy). I suspect the holding back of songs for the move Head impacted this record. I enjoy it as a piece more than I did initially, but my overall feelings about the album haven't changed much over the years.

    Well...
    My name is Derek and I'm a Monkees vinylholic. I like to pick up mixed lots of Monkee LPs and individual album issues from outside the US or copies in excellent condition. I have not purged the mediocre or duplicate pressings from my collection, so for no justifiable reason whatsoever, I have 32 vinyl copies (16 Colgems stereo, 1 Canadian mono, 1 Canadian stereo, 1 Puerto Rico mono, 2 UK mono, 1 German stereo, 1 South Africa mono, 2 Chile mono, 3 Japan stereo (Victor, Bell & Arista), 3 Rhino stereo, and 1 Sundazed stereo) 4 CDs (Japanese Arista, Rhino 1994, Rhino Handmade box set, and Classic Album Collection box) and 1 Rhino cassette.

    I'm sure you are wondering... the Puerto Rico and South Africa mono LPs have the true mono mix. Give you one guess what my holy grail piece of vinyl is.

    The outtakes of this period are all over the place, kind of like the album itself. I greatly prefer Davy's outtakes like "Changes," "I'm Gonna Try" and "The Party" over a song like "We Were Made For Each Other." I could say the same about "My Share of the Sidewalk" with the bonus that it was written by Nesmith. Speaking of Nesmith, I can't believe "Nine Times Blue" and "Carlisle Wheeling" didn't come out on an original Monkees album - those songs are sublime. I don't have as much enthusiasm for Peter's "Merry Go Round" or "Come On In," but I can take "Lady's Baby" occasionally and I have a strange affinity for "Tear The Top Right Off My Head." And then there's "Rosemarie" and "Ceiling in My Room"... I don't think anyone who's not a die-hard fan will even recognize those song titles.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  7. fortherecord

    fortherecord Senior Member

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    This is my favorite Monkees album. I have many pressings from different countries, including the original Colten’s mono LP.
     
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  8. Neil Anderson

    Neil Anderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    I love the 4 Nesmith songs. "PO Box ...." is pretty good. the other Mickey songs are okay, but don't really grab me. Daydream Believer and Valleri are catchy, but I tend to do a lot of needle-lifting during the other Davey songs. Wish they had kept recording as a band. They really should have included Lady's Baby on this, it would have made for a perfectly good change-of-pace album track.
     
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  9. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Apart from Daydream Believer it was notably weaker than what had come before and overall it was a disappointment. The strength of the outtakes on the box set reveals that it could have been much stronger with bwtter selections from the available material.
     
  10. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Location:
    NY
    I remember that either WABC-AM or WMCA-AM in New York was playing one song an hour from the album just before it was released.
     
  11. phillyal1

    phillyal1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    philadelphia, pa.
    I met Peter Tork at a signing at Tower Records in the Nineties. He signed my "Birds&Bees" cd. I told him "I really like Lady's Baby". He stopped, sighed, looked me straight in the face and said Thank You very sincerely. Guess that hadn't been said to him very often.
     
  12. MarcS

    MarcS Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    When did you first hear this album? 1984 but I had the Valleri/Tapioca Tundra Colgems single way before
    What did you think? -Not as good as Headquarters or Pisces
    Has this opinion changed at all? Like it a little more; Dream World has grown on me.
    How many copies of this album do you have? 1 the Rhino CD w/bonus trax

    Who's call was it to take all of Peter's contributions off? Peter? Lester Sill? The other Monkees?
     
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  13. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Didn't hear it real time like Pisces, so i guess the seventies.
     
  14. JJR

    JJR Forum Resident

    Location:
    delaware
    Listening to this LP now, you can really tell the direction of the Monkees away from each other into more individual artists. I am not sure I picked up on that back when I was 8 or 9. For me this LP falls in the middle as far as listening pleasure. Certainly not as good as Headquarters, Head and Pisces but better than the final three to me. I will say there were missed opportunities and I have mentioned this in another thread but Chip Douglas produced a version of "We were made for Each Other" on Nov. 4, 1967 according to the Sandoval book and it features banjo and a great pop arrangement. I listen to it on YouTube all the time and as Sandoval says it is an indicator of what future recordings would have been if they had retained his services. In my opinion, better tunes.
    Another highlight, as it seems like most Monkees fans agree, was Auntie's. I like that song and by then it should not have been a surprise that a Nez tune would carry a lead vocal from Micky. Now after all this time, the best tune (voted in another thread by me) is The Girl I Knew Somewhere also Mary, Mary and Daily Nightly. So the Nez written, Micky vocal combo was a huge success as is their dual lead songs. Zor and Zam was a favorite of mine when the LP came out and that song at the end of their last show will always be a highlight.
     
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  15. BobT

    BobT Resident Monkeeman

    So, I found this album fairly late in my pickup of the original 9. It would have been 2nd to last (about a year or 2 before I got a tape copy of Present from a mail order form for a record store in California) around 1976 or 1977. I bought it from a kid in middle school for about $5.00. In it's original form, this album is towards the bottom of the original 9 for me. With all of the outtakes and alt versions, it goes into my top 5. Favorites include Writing Wrongs, Daydream Believer, Tapioca Tundra, Aunties Municipal Court, Valleri, and Zor And Zam. the other Davy songs on Side 1 leave me cold, and PO Box 9847 ... meh.
     
  16. MarkTheShark

    MarkTheShark Senior Member

    Late 1970s
    Not that impressed
    I think I like it better now
    How many copies? I think I have 5 CD versions:
    • 1992 Arista Japan
    • 1994 Rhino
    • Mono bootleg
    • Handmade 3-CD deluxe edition
    • Original Albums Collection
    At one time or another I have had on vinyl:
    • 1968 Colgems stereo
    • 1980 Arista Japan reissue
    • 1985 Rhino reissue
    • 1986 remastered Rhino reissue
    Not sure where all of these are at the moment.

    I have never felt it hangs together as an album, much like Instant Replay and Present. That is not to say there isn't great music on it. Nesmith's songs tend to be my favorites, though I'm not a huge fan of "Writing Wrongs." But I don't hate it. (I am hopeful that just maybe, I might hear them do "Auntie's Municipal Court" live this summer.

    I wouldn't say there is a "bad" song on here, but some of it is C-list stuff and they could have done better. What's with all the horns?

    "P.O. Box 9847" is great. I like "The Poster." I like "I'll Be Back Up On My Feet," but I prefer the earlier 1966 version of the song, and the same with "Valleri."

    The outtakes from these sessions, like the final album, are a mixed bag. Peter Tork needed a producer/editor. The more acoustic arrangement of "Little Red Rider" on the 3-CD set is my go-to version of the song. Chip Douglas's unfinished productions demonstrate why he should have been kept on. I like the "Magnolia Simms" remix. I kind of like "Ceiling In My Room," it has kind of a haunting vibe to it.
     
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  17. Man at C&A

    Man at C&A Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    Does anyone here like Dreamworld? Along with Auntie's Municipal Court it's my favourite track on this album.

    Even though I've liked Headquarters, Pisces... & Head for years I didn't hear The Birds... until relatively recently when I got the original album series box. I was under the impression it was a poor album but I like it a lot. That's the only copy I have of it.
     
  18. gillcup

    gillcup Senior Member

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    I was a huge fan of the Monkees in 1966 and 1967. However I started listening to the Beatles in 1967 and bought Sgt Pepper in the summer of 1967. This was a game changer and the Beatles became my favorite band. Still, I loved the Monkees and when Birds, Bees & Monkees came out it was an immediate buy.

    My initial reaction was mild disappointment. I liked a lot of the songs but some of the magic seemed to be gone. I was more interested in The Beatles and other bands like Cream and Jimi Hendrix Experience.

    I still own the original vinyl and own it on CD.
     
  19. Pizza

    Pizza With extra pepperoni

    Location:
    USA
    Never liked this album. Mostly fill. Even the hit single was pulled from earlier sessions.
     
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  20. mBen989

    mBen989 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Scranton, PA
    My turn!

    Birds and Bees I came to late in my discovery of The Pre-Fab Four.

    Now let me get something clear; I like "Daydream Believer", I think it's Dave's definitive tune (well, this and "Girl" because reasons) but it was obviously added for commercial reasons, kind of why "Good Vibrations" was on Smiley Smile.

    A scattershot affair, but there are some songs I like ("Auntie's Municipal Court", Tapioca Tundra", "I'll Be Back Up on My Feet", "P.O. Box 9847", "Valleri", "Zor and Zam").

    (Also of Interest: "Nine Times Blue", "Lady's Baby", "It's Nice to Be with You", "(I Prithee) - Do Not Ask for Love")
     
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  21. super sally

    super sally Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mint Hill, NC USA
    I suspect that RayBert wanted to save Peter's songs as potential picks for HEAD.
     
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  22. bvb1123

    bvb1123 Rock and Roll Martian

    Location:
    Cincinnati Ohio
    This was one of my first albums I ever owned, when I was around 5 or 6 in the mid 70s. My grandma got me this, Headquarters, and Meet The Beatles at a thriftstore. I really liked all three albums as a kid and Headquarters is still my favorite Monkees album. I still love this album and playing it, like I am now, brings back lots of memories. I like every song on it. Even the Davy tracks are pretty good. My favorites, even as a child, have always been the Nesmith tracks. It's #5 or 6 in line as far as my top Monkees albums go but that certainly doesn't mean I don't still love it. I still have that original Col-gems stereo album, one of my only vinyl albums I still have left, but it's trashed and I'd never play it. So the only playable copy I have is the Rhino CD with bonus tracks from the 90s. I'd love to find a copy of the Rhino Handmade 3 CD set but every time I find one the asking price is comparable to that of a used car and that's just way out of my price range.
     
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  23. gregorya

    gregorya I approve of this message

    It had "Daydream Believer" on it and for that alone, it is a must have album. I was a fan from day one, and played their albums to death when they came out...

    My mom even knit me a Mike Nesmith hat back in the day... I still have it! :)
     
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  24. BadJack

    BadJack doorman who always high-fives children of divorce

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Yeah, "Dream World" is a nice song. The production's a little overdone but it's got some nice changes. "The Poster" is a dud, though.

    The album's a bit of a mess but I do mostly enjoy it. I feel like now that Douglas was gone, the record's dominated by Jones' and Nesmith's visions of what The Monkees should be, and those visions are worlds apart.
     
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  25. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur!

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    My older brother was at exactly the right age when the Monkees hit. He bought the first five LPs and most of the singles in real time. The first four Monkees albums were in pretty regular rotation when I was a toddler and little kid.

    I remember when he brought home Birds and the Bees and being fascinated by the cover art, but interestingly, I didn't remember that album like I remembered the first four. I didn't know if it wasn't as good, or if the luster had simply worn off by that point, and he'd moved on to other music.

    At any rate, I revisited the album several years ago. I remembered exactly four songs - the two hits, naturally; "Tapioca Tundra," which I'd had on a 45, and "Zor and Zam," which is in the Tim Buckley episode of the TV series. But I didn't remember anything else.

    Anyway, when I played the album, I must say I was underwhelmed, even by the Nesmith songs (except for "Tapicoca," which I love.) The only song that made an impression on me was "PO Box 9847."
     
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