What percentage of new vinyl you buy is defective?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by oregonalex, Jul 5, 2014.

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  1. JamieLang

    JamieLang Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    I would argue there is only "audio related" issues with vinyl. They do not play perfectly--they play from beginning to end without throwing the stylus out of the groove. Yay. So, now for $25-40/ea I can expect the same as the $5 mp3 only without the silence at the beginning and end?

    How do you fix off center? I ask because I just bought a sealed record from 2008 (apparently when it was issued) that 3 sides are lovely and the 4th is SO off center that the pitch on the piano audibly warbles. The 3rd side (same disc) is perfectly centered--so it's not like I can shim the hole with a dremel and super glue....f'n United Press....I need to go down there and petition for a job as their QC guy. I bet they wouldn't want me doing that, though....make more money pitching it out there. I do, however, want to know from now on if they pressed it....I've had two or three defective UP records over the last couple years. I've also had some nice ones....but, that's too many from one place.

    Does anyone know if they even exchange vinyl now? Not the store....I mean where the stores get it....the labels who kept pressing north of 90 stopped taking returns (from the stores)....so, if a store has to eat records....it was one thing when the store cost was $4-5....I can't imagine what it is not that they sell for $24-40 retail.
     
  2. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    Not here. ¨We sell them sealed, if it's defective it's not our fault¨ I had to contact the label...in Mexico !!
     
  3. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    The RSD Willie Nelson I got was warped. It plays and sounds good but it has a obvious and clear defect.
     
  4. George Blair

    George Blair Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    One of my RSD buys has to go back. Guided By Voices - Do The Collapse on orange vinyl TVT Records. Side B has loud surface noise, unacceptable and obviously a defect. Don't want to return to small independent I bought it from, so will try contacting the label.
     
  5. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I Think you have right to return those mentioned. I usually return all but the slightest warp or dished if more than a couple mm's lift at the edge. Repetitive clicks if very loud or more than 4 or 5 consecutively and definitely if there is visible damage that relates to the noise. Also repetitive swooshes and bad crackles due to stitching (vinyl fill) although in last case often get similar problems on replacements. Will tolerate a few clicks where no obvious visible cause or the odd isolated fill type crackle, slight dishing and slight off centre or off centre labels as long as they don't make the stylus jump out of the locked groove. If it is a second or third copy I have to be more realistic and tolerant and come to conclusion it is too much hassle to luck out on a perfect copy. General surface noise on quiet passages is unlikely to be individual copy specific though you might get a better copy.

    Often problems permeate a whole pressing run or part of the run and it pays to get a refund and order a copy from another vendor who got a different 'batch'. Cleaning with RCM can reduce some problems and eliminate others such as pops caused by a wax like blob on the surface which I do find occasionally (only detectable from playing repeatedly and close inspection and which can be partially rubbed or flicked off very carefully with a soft cloth or a finger nail). I estimate that I have kept albums with a level of tolerably intrusive blemishes to well under 10% of my collection but few will not have even one isolated click. Intolerable defects are returned or binned. If you focus on CD like background 90% of vinyl will be intolerable but with vinyl the presentation tends to mask / override many flaws dependent on stylus and phono preamps ability to put imperfections below the music.

    Unfortunately the downsides of vinyl can be numerous as it is more often than not an imperfect medium. However a great pressing is worth all the hassle with the defectives. I suppose I tolerate the problems because I grew up with the medium and just find digital audio too lacking in it's ability to reproduce music.
     
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  6. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    About 10%. I get the odd bad CD too but there cheap, new vinyl has become very expensive.
    And as far as folks saying that vinyl is better, they just haven't heard a great CD rig.
     
  7. Clonesteak

    Clonesteak Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kalamazoo, MI
    I bought the Willie RSD day Teatro and it is noisy but the worst part is the distortion on the vocals especially on the first disc. I emailed light in the attic records and I want to exchange to get defect free vinyl. The packaging is superb though.
     
  8. JBryan

    JBryan Forum Resident

    Location:
    St Louis
    @5% and that's being a bit liberal. I tend to get behind opening and playing records so as long as it plays through and doesn't have glaring defects, like non-fill and warping, I'll accept a few ticks and pops or a slightly off-center hole (although that's a very rare occurrence for me). I usually play through a fresh record to discern any problems and determine if it needs cleaning to remove pops and ticks (it often does). Aside from needing a good cleaning, warping is probably the more common defect and certainly the most annoying. From my listening position, I am eye-level with the TT's platter and can see any variance in the record and arm. If the record is off-center, the cart sways but as long as its not hindering the music, I can accept a little movement. OTOH, a warp throws me into a tizzy! My plinth and platter are leveled with a machinist precision level and the result makes it very difficult to tell if the platter is spinning (unless there are fingerprints on its metal rim) except for the very slow movement of the tonearm arcing across the record. A warp is a constant reminder of the spin and while I will tolerate a very slight dish warp, larger edge warps make me very nervous as the cart nears the end of the side. I have a tapered arm (SME) and it gets painfully close to the apex of some warps as the arm moves closer to the center. It hasn't actually been lifted yet but only because I've chickened out and stopped the record before the end. Those few records never get played twice!
     
  9. mitchcortes

    mitchcortes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    Hi, if I may ask, what happens with returned copies? Are they returned to the distributor (or label) or are you stuck with these as a shop owner? I hear from US people that defective records are non returnable. How is this handled here in the EU I wonder?
    I'd like to know because my local shop owner is beginning to make trouble with my latest returns… :cry:
     
  10. JamieLang

    JamieLang Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    I don't know.

    I know when we stopped carrying vinyl in 90, it was because one distributor announced they were stoppign the presses (so we could no longer carry everything on vinyl) and the others went to "vinyl is non returnable" status--which meant we at the store had to eat it.

    Thing is....vinyl had the most defects of ANY format....we'd return 20 for every one cassette or CD. It was just an assumed part of the business that 15%+ or so would come back to them. So, at the HEIGHT of record production.....they assumed 15% were bad. And that's before CD made people even picky. Those were generally "defective" as in they didn't play through or were HORRIBLY warped or something....not a little off center....or "noisy"--that's hilarious to me that THAT is now a vinyl defect!!

    Now, I would imagine like most things, it's about purchasing clout. Local mom and pop likely eats it themselves--or if they determine it's actually ok on their table, puts it out for sale at a used price to cover their costs....but, I'd bet Amazon has a deal where they get credit from the distributor because they're a big enough player they have the clout to negotiate terms.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  11. mitchcortes

    mitchcortes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    Well, I personally don't count "noisy" as a defect. I just live with it or, if it bothers me to much, try to find a better copy. If there is an audible scratch or mark however I ask for an exchange.
     
    Clonesteak likes this.
  12. krlpuretone

    krlpuretone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Grantham, NH
    As I've stated in a number of similar threads here, this is the proper course of action.

    The label has the resources and responsibility to replace defects (and is more likely to take up the issue with the pressing plant if it's a recurring problem)
     
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  13. mitchcortes

    mitchcortes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    This is perhaps not the wright thread, but I thought I'd post it here following up my latest defective pressings mentioned before. My local store said he would no longer take any vinyl back from me, since I'm the apparently only customer with that many returns... Bummer! I only returned vinyl with visual and/or audible damage and severe warping, so I thought I had the wright to ask for a better copy.
    Maby it should be better to adress the labels about the defective pressing and ask them for an exchange?! But somehow I guess they will tell me to resolve this with the store I bought the record from...
    Has anyone tried this yet and succeeded? I know dr rhino is good for issues with rhino vinyl pressings, but don't know about the other labels.
     
  14. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Being in the EU he can't refuse to take back faulty product. In fact he should take back product for any reason other than not liking the music. If this was any other consumer product it would be exchanged no questions. Obviously he doesn't want you as a customer. This attitude just increases Amazon sales. Dr Rhino strictly only covers US / North America but I did get replacement sleeves from them when they fell short with the original sleeve printing for The Doors box set. Law is clear that the retailer is responsible for dealing with faulty goods. He has to sort out returns with the distributor/label. Don't think any EU label is set up to deal with faulty product directly except when you buy direct from label web sites. Universal certainly will take back products sold from their vinyl site.
     
  15. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    BTW - recently have been getting near to 30% defect rate on vinyl - usually audible blemishes (vinyl mix) 0r scratches. Rarely do I get warping or dishing.
     
  16. fluffskul

    fluffskul Would rather be at a concert

    Location:
    albany, ny
    Threads like this really make me wonder if people's TT/cartridges are set up properly. I know there are legit lemons. But if over half of the vinyl you are purchasing is "defective" I think something else is the matter.
     
  17. sportzdad

    sportzdad Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Athens, GA
    I just returned a mofi little feet pressing that was horrible. When I removed the album, visually I knew it was bad. Very cloudy vinyl, smears all over it. Lots of surface noise.

    My 45 rpm Fleetwood Mac rumors pallas pressing had a gouge in it, right out if the wrapper.

    My atco "crystal clear" beggars banquet had a constant pop in the left channel. It also had black swirl marks in the clear vinyl.

    My government mule blue note pressing was badly warped.

    These were purchased in the last 30 days.

    For every bad one, there has been an amazing one.
     
  18. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    It's quite possible if you are unlucky but I wouldn't classify non-audible marks or minor off centre as defective. I'm certainly getting at worst one defective in every 5 titles though this may be one in ten if I have a good run. These problems are usually related to a visual defect on close examination - Usually one track ruined by repetitive pops crackle or swooshes that last minutes rather than seconds. The bottom line is that there is far less QC than in the heyday of vinyl when teams of inspectors were employed. What is disappointing is that obvious visual defects get out far too often even from plants producing a premium priced audiophile pressing.
     
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  19. Luca

    Luca Wolf under sheep clothing

    Location:
    Torino, Italy
    Personally I do. If it's possible to press absolutely silent LPs like the recent mono Beatles or Depeche Mode's Delta Machine (they are so silent that they could be mistaken for CDs!!!!!), then I expect all LPs to be pressed the same way. I can't tolerate new records costing 30 EUR and crackling and popping like badly used ones. The technology allows to press totally silent LPs, so if someone decides to settle for less and be sloppy, I don't have to accept it.
     
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  20. sportzdad

    sportzdad Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Athens, GA
    If I'm paying 15 to 20$ for a L.P., I don't expect it to be totally quiet vinyl. When I spend 30 to 50$ for something, yes I expect silent, quiet vinyl.
     
  21. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    They only want sheep that are too shy or lazy to return an item, or know squat about defects on vinyls , eg people who think surface noise is ¨normal¨ for vinyl:laugh:. At least you fellas can return/exchange them in the USA.

    No such thing here: ¨we sell them sealed, if it's faulty we have nothing to do with it¨:(
     
  22. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I got the new Alabama shakes and it sets a new record for the worst warp on a new record i have ever brought home.

    It has to be returned, no question.
     
  23. MikeInFla

    MikeInFla Glad to be out of Florida

    Location:
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Only one, ever. Capitol Records Red Vinyl Limited Edition "Band Of Gypsys". Warped but NOT unplayable, it still plays fine. It was a mail order copy and didn't feel like messing with packaging it back up and sending it off once I noticed it played ok.
     
  24. murphywmm

    murphywmm Senior Member

    2014 was probably my worst year for defective vinyl, and I even stopped buying for awhile. But I've found things have gotten better in 2015. Maybe the labels are using better companies or those companies are putting more care into their product.
     
  25. whaiyun

    whaiyun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Windsor/Detroit
    Or you know, random is random. Unless you were buying hundreds to thousands of LPs every year and saw a significant drop in quality in 2014.
     
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