What percentage of new vinyl you buy is defective?

I buy mostly used stuff so none so far.

 

I have been buying records since I was a preschooler.That is about fifty years.I have only found a couple of records pressed before 1972 or '73 or so that were defective.These were either from Trinidad or Jamaica,who have always been known for having crappy presings,and quality control.Budget labels,in the US,often had noisy pressings,but they were not defective.All that changed,in the US and Canada,in the wake of The Energy Crisis,when recycled vinyl,and lower quality standards entered the picture,but things really didn't start to get bad,until the latter 70s,and 80s.As a result,import records became more and more popular with US buyers,until the CD came along.No fill,on the other hand,is a fairly new phenomenon,just in the last few years.I think the email posted here the other day may from Matador,have exposed a big part of the problem.The people pressing records,and cutting mothers and stampers today grew up in the CD age,and are doing things the best they can,but they still can't get things quite right.We need to bring whatever old guys are left who made records back in the day out of retirement,to train the next generation how to do things right.

 

I appreciated your response, quadjoe.

I think I've heard that warps can be caused by the manufacturer failing to properly cool a record immediately after it's pressed...?

Interesting that your take is that defects are less common now than then. Would you say that you're buying a majority of "audiophile" vinyl or more consumer-level-under-$20 stuff? I could see that with the audiophile stuff the technology and care has improved so it makes sense that the vinyl has as well. But as for consumer level stuff, I would think the opposite generally speaking, that vinyl is no longer the leading format, that commercially it's more or less a novelty now, which I think caters to the theory that manufacturers more concerned with the bottom line are merely meeting the minimum standards.

As for "artisan" records, I'd be interested to see how much they costed and how good they actually were! I keep my collection quite small now, only keeping the best of the best. I settle for digital with the majority of my favorite music, and as a collector of mostly vintage jazz records, I'm used to spending a little more than average on each record so I'd be willing to give it a shot. But it might be totally impractical from an economic standpoint, kind of like the idea that it's not economically viable to get smaller amounts of CDs or t-shirts made for resale. (On a side note, I don't really give a damn about the vinyl resurgence, as I collect vintage vinyl and am typically indifferent to owning new music on vinyl or digital. )

BTW: very cool that you've been a faithful supporter of wax all this time! I love the medium, I just don't invest a lot of faith in its livelihood as a viable mass-produced format in our modern world.

 

If it's warped a little I can deal with it but if it is off center then I'll send it back. Sometimes I get the thump, thump, thump record but if it can't be heard when the music is playing I'll just keep it.

Sent back a Can Soundtracks LP the other day for being off center on side 2.

 

I get nervous when I see the circled U in the deadwax of any new LP that I buy... URP is such a crapshoot. Some of their pressings can sound great, but many others sound noisy and bad.

 

Well, so far I'm two for two on Mellencamp's Plain Spoken being dish warped. Back it goes. I feel bad because the rep gave my store owner a hard time about the last return. But it's inexcusable, and, even though it'll play, it messes up the vertical tracking angle and shouldn't be tolerated on new records. Maybe if the returns get high enough the labels will start putting some pressure on the pressing plants.

 

About 2%

 

I was wondering about this too. My occasional splurges on "audiophile" reissues and whatnot have been problem-free for the most part. It's the standard releases of new albums that have been much more of a gamble. You get what you pay for, I guess.

 

That's certainly possible, though records are visually inspected at the plant for defects. Warps aren't always immediately obvious, that's true, but I think that the worst ones are culled at the plant. I know that the initial cooling process is automated at the press itself, and then the records are stacked and allowed to finish cooling before being placed in their sleeves.

Personally, I'm buying mostly audiophile vinyl online, but our FYE store has a pretty good (for this area) vinyl section, and I've bought several records from them, with no issues. Of the 50 or so I've bought this past year I only had one return for an off-center pressing. Remember, I won't return a record over a single pop or click. I also buy a lot of used vinyl off eBay with really good luck; I've bought about 200 records in the last 3 years, and have only bought two that weren't what the seller advertised.

Back in the heyday of vinyl, they were pressing hundreds of millions of records a year, so there was a much greater opportunity for the manufacturers to miss defects, hence more defective records made it to the stores. Recording technology has improved, and likely cutting techniques are improved, but the record presses running today are the same ones that were made in the '60s and '70s: no new presses have been made since the 1980s. Audiophile pressings are done with greater care and more inspections at the plant to catch the defective discs, and since they are pressing fewer discs, the price is understandably higher.

Here are a couple of videos of the process at various plants:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDduaWNX2fo

The process has been essentially the same for the better part of 100 years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdhNNaQhgv8

Any company that makes any kind of product needs to be able to make a profit in order to stay in business; that means that the cost of production must be absorbed by the consumer. The fewer records pressed the higher the price has to be. I'm not certain about the viability of an artisan label, but I agree it would be interesting.

Thanks, but I largely kept my vinyl collection because I simply couldn't afford to buy everything over again on CD. I think that vinyl will continue for at least another decade or more. Lots of young people are getting into it.

 

In November I completed a full year's boycott of new vinyl because about 70% of what I'd bought was defective. I restarted buying with the Beatles mono, a Mellencamp 2 lp set, a Nick Drake lp, and most recently the Beatles RED and BLUE. All are perfect except the BLUE which I've returned for an exchange. Finally some success with new vinyl!

 

I went from a VPI Scoutmaster II with their JWM arm and Clearaudio Virtuoso cartridge to my Brinkmann Oasis with Graham Phantom Supreme II arm and Lyra Delos cartridge. It was a huge step up, but as many here know I was having tons of issues with distortion on my first rig. Haven't had any issues since upgrading.

 

Finally got a copy that wasn't warped. It's so noisy I should have kept the dish warped copy. Side two is horrible. Anyone else buy this record? Anyone have a decent copy?

 

I posted on A'gon when the QRP TFTTM was first released that I felt it was basically a POS. MF had waxed over how great it was, and after just one listen, I felt like you did, very disappointed. After several wet cleanings and treatments, the noise was reduced, BUT the whole LP still isn't great and IMHO certainly NOT worth the money. OTOH, I recently had a VERY noisy Music Matters 331/3 Kenny Burrell Midnight Blue, which Elusive kindly replaced for me with a re-press that is MUCH quieter. ( this is a KILLER LP, highly recommended to all).
I do think that if one buys from a reputable dealer like ED, then a return is the answer.
BTW, I recently acquired two Opus 3 LP's on eBay for very little money, both were warped on one side, ( which the seller had disclosed) and yet both sound great. A little weird seeing the arm float up and down, BUT I guess once I get used to that, the warp issue is moot.

 

I received a replacement copy of the Blue Note 75 reissue of Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue. Both copies have the same problem -- a crackly sound in the right channel during the first minute of the first track. I think I'll keep the record, though, because I love the album, and it's too much work and too expensive to find a good used copy.

United Record Pressing sucks. They just plain suck. Do they do any testing of their products before shipping them?

 

Get the MM one!!!

 

I'd say 5% but if you subtract United and Rainbo it drops. The best seem to QRP, Optimal, Pallas, RTI, GottaGroove and MPO. I tend to take a lot of chances on bands with smaller budgets that press at some of the not so great plants and I experience 10%+ defect in this group. For the audiophile type stuff, it's less than 5%.

 

Agree! If you love this album you should get the Music Matters 33 release.

 

~40% lately

 

It's a nice thought, but I am not interested in spending $35+shipping for one record. Just not doing it. There is no reason the $17 version from Amazon should be defective.

 

I would say 20% and that's after I stopped buying from Amazon. The hassle of returning half my records wasn't worth the savings.

 

Just one data point (or maybe two), but the double album Father John Misty "I Love You, Honeybear" just arrived today as a gift (released 2-10-15, SubPop). Each disc is beautifully pressed and supplied in audiophile sleeves, clear vinyl, 45rpm. Possibly the quietest LPs I own now and the sound is outstanding. I wish I knew for sure where these platters were pressed. I would definitely look for other albums pressed by the same company. Other than the album catalog #, the only other clues in the deadwax are "RKS" (written) and "STERLING" (stamped). RKS is Ryan Smith at Sterling and they did a great job cutting this. But the pressings are even more impressive, SOTA, beautiful.

 

I'd say less than 5%. I've only returned 1 to a store because it was SEVERELY warped (Metallica MoP). Some have a slight warp, but that's no biggie. I probably bought 200 brand new albums last year.

 

I'm with ya man. The % is way too high:
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...vinyl-purchases-of-2014.405267/#post-11653570

 

Amazon has nothing to do with faulty vinyl though. In fact, the whole reason that I buy new vinyl from Amazon is because they don't suffer a broken heart when you return a record the way the local shops do.

 

My clear vinyl of Let It Bleed was a tad noisy. But my 180g Exile, 180g DSOTM, and 180g Daft Punk RAM all sounded great.