What VERY expensive MC cartridges have you owned, and are they worth it?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Warren Jarrett, Mar 4, 2018.

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  1. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    What I have become more impatient with at any price level are detached details and mistracking. By detached details I mean the detail that causes you to look up because it has an existence at least partly separate from the musical tapestry. I don't mean solos or percussion touches that are meant to stand out but those details that are system produced maybe at a certain frequency range. Of course sometimes that's the fault of the system other than the cartridge. But some cartridges seem prone to that.
     
  2. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    Good for you and I hope you like the sound.
     
  3. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    Right. We don’t exactly know the cause, but I frequently come across used records that look clean, but have groove wear/distortion that makes them unlistenable (in my mind). Again, this is distinct from surface noise.
     
  4. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    Another component to this as it relates to the SPU cartridge in particular is I think the average record player of the era was something built into a console with an arm made of bakelight and a ceramic cartridge with an extremely high tracking force designed solely around powering through warps and skips. Seeing these in thrift stores today, I'm not sure all of the arms were even adjustable. I certainly won't push back on the notion something like this wouldn't shred a record. I just don't think its as linear as high tracking force damages grooves.
     
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  5. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Yeah I'm not saying it is the cause of wearing down records, just one factor I was worried about especially since we have so many amazing sounding cartridges that track at 1.6-1.9 g.
     
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  6. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    I used a Garrard 401 on custom plinth with Jilco 12" tone arm. Cartridge was a Denon DL-301MKII with Denon AU-20 SUT. It sounded so good I never experimented with more expensive cartridges. A lower scale cartridge I tried briefly was a AT-95e I had laying around. Absolutely no comparison to the Denon cartridge. So, perhaps some $300 & up cartridges gets the task done well & little refinements with more expensive cartridges is like tasting your favorite wine although some different wines work well too.
     
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  7. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Seems like a mystery to me also?

    Makes sense. I can understand economics of scale coming into play during the manufacturing process.

    Small batch production of anything is going to be more expensive than something that is manufactured off of a large assembly line. I don't have any problem with that.

    It's just when I see prices that are completely out of wack with the cost of the actual manufacturing, that ruffles my feathers.

    The prices alone don't bother me a bit. There are a lot of better things out there then I can afford or choose not to afford. It doesn't bother me. At some point, I just become reluctant to move deeper into my wallet, without better justification.
     
  8. slovell

    slovell Retired Mudshark

    Location:
    Chesnee, SC, USA
    I've bought most of my carts used and never paid over $500. I just can't see spending more for a cartridge than the price of my Scout.
     
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  9. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    That's a good point and exactly what I went thru when contemplating my Delos purchase, it's more than my mmf-7.1

    But this table performers well over price point so I knew it could handle a much higher end cartridge. To me it's more can your phono stage handle a higher end cartridge, does it give you the ability to fine tune it.
     
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  10. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Warren if you are out there, I would love to know what exactly you mean, by the above statement! Or if somebody else knows what is talking about, please advise!

    JG
     
  11. smctigue

    smctigue Forum Resident

    I believe Warren is saying that many people on this forum would not consider spending $1000 - $1500 on a cartridge, consequently $3000 would be considered super expensive.
     
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  12. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    No, that is not what he said, he specifically says... spending more than $1500, or even $1000, for a low output MC cart is considered unthinkable by those of us.

    Am I misinterpreting him somewhere along the line, is he saying they would spend that kind of money on a high output MC cart.

    JG
     
  13. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    Maybe a better way to think about it is "do you believe you can hit the ceiling of a LOMC cartridge by spending <$1000, or has your experience shown you the sky is the limit?" Or perhaps "would you consider spending on a LOMC cartridge as much as you would on actual components, speakers, etc?"
     
  14. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    I don't think he is defining LOW or HIGH, most tend to think the definition for higher end cartridges are LOW OUTPUT MC, its just a generalization/description. I also just think he is saying that MOST on this forum would not spend 4 figures on a cartridge, clearly there is some validity to his statement. There are other audio forums where spending $2-$5K on a cartridge is the norm, even more.

    I think he is simply trying to only get feedback/impressions from those here that have spent 4 figures on a cartridge, regardless if Low or High output. Remember he just helped Steve Hoffman setup a 5 figure cartridge for him to use and review......

    Cheers
     
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  15. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Thank you for the detailed response and it makes sense. As i was reading it I originally picked up on it in a different way.

    JG
     
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  16. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Flat the 5 and That’s No Jive

    Location:
    NYC USA
    I never got in deeper than a Sumiko Blue Point Special but it was worth it. Problem was the cartridge was so delicate that the cantliver broke so I had to buy another. Same thing happened again so so bought one more. Finally three strikes and you’re out. I did love it enough to replace it twice. That says something at the price.

    First one was broken by my house keeper.
    Second one was broken by my nephew.
    Third one was broken by someone at Analogique, what was a very fine audio service company in Manhattan at one time. I wouldn’t let them work on a Close and Play record player now.

    I decided my world is a little too rough for super delicate cartridges.
     
  17. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    No worries......heck if Warren does reply to your query I may be wrong...LOL

    Cheers
     
  18. slovell

    slovell Retired Mudshark

    Location:
    Chesnee, SC, USA
    Valid point.
     
  19. smctigue

    smctigue Forum Resident

    Hm, I think it is.
     
  20. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    :love: Wow, that new SPU truly is a thing of beauty. Any idea if they'd make a mono version of that?

    A recent "discussion" I had on my blog with a reader has me thinking about removing the notion that high tracking forces are a major cause of groove wear. It makes sense to me now that tracking at 4-5 grams with a high-mass tonearm and low-compliance cartridge seems perfectly fine and one shouldn't be worried about damaging their records with carts like the SPUs just because of their higher recommended forces. And yes, I tried to be clear in my article that it was just a theory and not intended to come across as factual. But of course, I share in the experience of coming across countless worn vintage jazz LPs.
     
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  21. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Anything I have read about tracking forces it has always been recommended to edge towards the higher side of whatever tracking force range is suggested by the cartridge manufacturer to protect your records!:hide:

    JG
     
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  22. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Same here. :righton:
     
  23. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Update: I updated the article on groove wear, extending my research substantially and including references, and my original hypotheses do seem correct, that excessive tracking force, low lateral compliance, and worn styli are to blame for the number of vintage mono LPs with groove wear:

    Groove Wear: The Elephant in the Record Store

    And just to further reply to @Rolltide's initial comments on the speculative nature of the article, yes, these are still just theories as to what caused the higher number of occurrences of groove wear with vintage mono LPs.
     
  24. slovell

    slovell Retired Mudshark

    Location:
    Chesnee, SC, USA
    I'd rather have a car than a $10K to $15K cartridge. Fremer always makes me scratch my head when he writes about $10K to $$25K carts and call them a bargain. He obviously doesn't live on the same planet as me. OTOH, if you can afford them go for it.
     
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  25. mkane

    mkane Strictly Analog

    Location:
    Auburn CA
    I would be afraid to even put my hands on a cartridge costing over $2500. I could only imagine after a few bourbons what could happen.
     
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