What was the first arena/stadium tour to use modern amplification?

My dad would disagree with that. He saw The Stones in 1969 (Chicago) and said it was a rather quiet show.

 

My dad was there in ‘69 and said it was a very quiet show overall.

 

Thanks for this article, and the links. Great history, very informative. Great photo of the early Fleetwood Mac lineup, too.

 

Really? I've been playing electric guitar for 52 years, and I owned a slew of Hendrix boots back in the day. Tuning lower than D? Prove it because I don't think that's true. It shouldn't be hard to come up with a sound clip.

 

lol, all I know is what I read in the papers. This is a matter of dispute that I can't arbitrate. People argue over whether the famous acoustic version of "Hear My Train a'Comin'" has all of the strings dropped to D, or if it's more like D flat. Maybe you can say for sure, presuming that the clip has been transferred with the correct pitch


Most people also say that the Band of Gypsys performances were done with all strings dropped to D, but I've also read that "Machine Gun" (presumably the one from the Fillmore East) is closer to D flat. Jimi Hendrix. 12 String Acoustic. Awesome Take your pick of the clips- who knows, maybe the pitch is different, depending on which one you listen to. hendrix band of gypsys mechine gun - YouTube

Various forum posts on the whimsical vagaries of Hendrix tunings:
Jimi Hendrix Tuning (Experience Hendrix has disappeared the Youtube link, but it's a performance of "Voodoo Chile" that a couple of posters think is in D flat.)
Jimi Hendrix Style - Guitar Noise Forums
What tunings did Jimi Hendrix use?

I've also read about Hendrix having a guitar set up for D flat/C sharp in a book reference, but I'm not able to unearth it at present.

 

Actually, on re-reading this link Jimi Hendrix Tuning the poster is claiming that the "Voodoo Chile" performance is tuned with the top 5 strings 1/2 step down, and only the lowest string dropped 2 more steps, to D flat.

Chords and altered tuning for "Hear My Train" acoustic Jimi Hendrix - Hear My Train A Comin (Tab)
Tuning given as C F A# D# G C
Songsterr agrees Hear My Train A Comin' (Acoustic) Tab by Jimi Hendrix - Hear My Train A Comin' (Acoustic) - Acoustic Guitar (steel) | Songsterr Tabs with Rhythm

 

The stuff that's being described isn't really 'modern' amplification by today's standards.
Most top notch venues / acts use 'line array' amplification systems such as V-DOSC. This didn't come into use until the 1990s.

 

I think by 'modern' in this context, we mean what came immediately after the era where bands like the Beatles and Stones were playing arenas and just putting the vocal mics through the venue's public address system; the same system used to announce scores, etc. during the game. We're talking something like Atlas horns, maybe driven by a Bogen amplifier with 4 high-impedance inputs for the mics. Very wonky and inadequate compared to (say) an Altec powered mixer with low-impedance inputs driving (maybe) another "slave" power amp into one or two pairs of A7 cabs topped by matching multicell horns. A huge improvement on Atlas horns or Shure Vocalmaster columns and, at the time, positively hifi. By the early '70s, p.a.'s had gotten huge, very sophisticated -- active crossovers, 24-input mixers, racks of Crown or Phase Linear power amps driving 3- or even 4-way horn systems. The sound could be breathtaking, presuming the f.o.h. guy didn't get on a volume power trip. The first flown, curved, powered-cabinet arrays I remember seeing in the early '90s (Pink Floyd comes to mind) were notable for being much more efficient; you could fill a huge arena cleanly with seemingly a fraction of the size of system as was needed in the '70s. But this was merely the mature stage of systems and engineering well underway by 1973 or so.

 

well...the earliest I ever read about, was the beatles, in atlanta, or was it memphis?..i think it was atlanta, georgia, where the locals had the sound system, and they handled it, and it was the best they had ever heard (in the stadiums, or course)....i think it was '65 or '66..the beatles themselves talked about it later on, and said so too.....i think they may have even had monitors...(wow...monitors?).......

 

I think it is fair to say they were on the vanguard for sure; but the nuance I would add is if we are talking about the very first ones, or focusing from ’65-’69 range say, they were known for chasing a very clean undistorted sound and not really going for huge as much. Now I am sure they were still loud, but the point being they were taking their time developing things from the wires up, and not just throwing up something to throw up something; in fact they still used old Ampex MX10 tube mixers from the 50’s until ’73. I’d say around ’73 they really got the PA development from a modern standpoint in gear, of course tried the Wall Of Sound line arrays in ’74, and from there they really continued to push things and by ’78-’79 were using time alignment, flying PAs, custom consoles, really the stuff you would see by the ‘90’s that you for the most part still see today. So in that sense I think the GD had more to do than about most anyone-- Healy, Pearson, Meyer in particular, Bear, Wickersham, Turner, Curl before them-- to really bring the modern PA, I am just staying what they did in ’66 to ’69 was probably less visibly important if you are going for flat out loud as your guide.

 

I think for purposes of this discussion, what the OP really means by "modern amplification" is a proper PA system, the sole purpose of which is to amplify the music on stage so that it is loud enough to properly support the venue.

Therefore, the idea some put forth that so and so started using 100w Marshall guitar amps is way off point. Therefore the Hendrix discussion rightfully belongs somewhere else. But hey, I won't let facts stand in the way of a good tussle. You'll just have to do it without me.

I think the 1969 Stones are probably the right answer. Although, it was a furtive tentative step in that direction. But things advanced quickly after that. By the mid 1970s, Yes, Pink Floyd and others were using sophisticated quad sound systems live, albeit with mixed results (Yes' sounded amazing, Pink Floyd's not so much, at least when I heard it).

The Grateful Dead were certainly at the forefront of things post-Woodstock. Their first system sounded very good when I heard it in 1972 in a medium sized indoor venue. I never cared for the Wall of Sound (it tended to beam too much, which made the overall mix a total crapshoot and completely dependent on where you happened to be sitting). The post-hiatus systems were better and continued to improve.

The best live sound system I ever heard was Dire Straits Brothers In Arms Tour in 1984. The sound was incredibly clean and detailed. The system had enough oomph to carry a large outdoor venue with ease. That remained the gold standard for me until the Mark Knopfler Tracker Tour in 2015. I've seen close to 300 concerts beginning in 1968. That's the truth as I know and understand it.

 

It was Atlanta in ‘65. Duke Mewborn who put the PA together is quoted elsewhere as saying the monitors were placed low to not block sight lines. The only guess I have is the monitors are right behind those Altecs pointing back to the stage, which makes sense from a wiring standpoint proximity wise I suppose; but you really don’t see anything between the Altecs do you? It’s probably safe to say this still doesn’t meet the OP’s standard as impressive as it is for ‘65.



The photo link will probably die soon so this Facebook page has the photo, search Atlanta.
The Beatles - Some Fun Tonight

 

We have a proverb here in New England about Lynn:

Lynn, Lynn, the city of sin
You never come out the same way you came in

 

Well, I was there, not my dad, and I dispute that .

I'm not saying that the show was ear bleedingly loud like some crazy later shows,but everything was loud enough, everything was mixed well, there were monitors for the band and a dedicated PA system for a rock band, as opposed to using the house system .
None of these things were present when I saw the Stones in 1966.

I have never seen a complaint before that the Stones 1969 shows were quiet.


The shows I saw at Kinetic Playground were very loud and mixed well with a dedicated PA, etc., also ,but that was a smaller club and 1969 also.

 

This extensive article, Charlie Watkins |previously linked upthread, credits Charlie Watkins of the UK with several landmarks in the history of rock and sound reinforcement: the the invention of the WEM Copicat mixer for PA systems; the first use of slave amps; the first wedge monitors; the first sound systems over 1000 watts. Watkins started getting involved in rock sound in 1965, working with the Byrds. He went on to work with many UK acts, including Fleetwood Mac, Savoy Brown, and the Crazy World of Arthur Brown. He did the sound for the Rolling Stones Hype Park gig. He provided the sound for the Isle of Wight gigs. (Watkins claims the first one was the best; the most famous one, in 1970, the wind impeded the sound considerably, an intractable problem that even the best system can do little to overcome.)In 1970, he built the PA for a US tour by Janis Joplin's band, but the crew set it up wrong, and they had to fly him in to correct the mistakes.

From what I've read about Owsley Stanley's work with the Dead and other San Francisco bands, there was some convergent evolution going on: Owsley's experiments with speakers and sound reinforcement parallel what Watkins was doing around the same time, in the UK. This link claims that Owsley and the engineers at Alembic Sound came up with the first line array PA system The Wall of Sound There's plenty of material on the Grateful Dead's 1972-1974 Wall of Sound in other links on the Internet, as well as a chapter devoted to it in Owsley's biography, and various interviews with him over the years. A few of Owsley's numerous opinions on the topic of sound reinforcement: the Altec VoT horns that provided the midrange and treble in his earliest setups were terrible sounding, ringy and peaky (the Wall of Sound eventually used cone speakers from top to bottom, including 4.5" JBL paper cone 2105s for the high frequencies); stereo is a fraud, at least when applied to providing sound reinforcement for live performances; the later Meyer Sound unitary line array speaker clusters constitute a marked improvement over the original Wall of Sound, as well as being more compact and more efficient.

Apparently, Owsley Stanley and Charlie Watkins never met. Maybe that's unfortunate, or maybe it's a good thing; they both sound like two very opinionated characters.

I think your comments about the Wall of Sound beaming too much are accurate; it wasn't set up as a clustered unitary array. While it didn't make the mistake of attempting a stereo mix, most of the speakers were set up on one side of the stage or another, which made the end result overly dependent on "listener axis", as it were. I'd also conjecture that the WoS reliance on having most of the speakers lined up as towers on each side of the stage invariably introduced phase cancellations, which is what happens when mono signal is reproduced by two separated speakers in a home listening environment, and is particularly noticeable if one is closer to one speaker than the other. So the clarity and separation of the system was astounding, but it wasn't entirely balanced unless one was in the (admittedly large) sweet spot in the center. To obviate that problem, the newer sound systems use a curved center cluster, with most of the speakers suspended overhead and radiating outward, with ample distance from the side structures and the ceiling.

 

"She told me to kiss her where it stinks, so I took her to Lynn"

 

I need to visit this town!!!

 

Dave Rat does a very simple and easily reproduced demo exactly that in this video:

 

Isn’t the OP asking what superceded this?

 

I took it to mean what was the first big tour.

 

“What was the first arena/stadium tour to use modern amplification?

By "modern" I simply mean the group could be heard, screams or no screams.”

I took it to mean a large arena tour that used a “modern” sound system and monitors rather than just overwhelming with stage volume.

The first big “tour” would have likely been the Beatles - Shea Stadium, etc. - who stopped touring before Hendrix started.

 

They'd just seen the price of the T-shirts!

Of course, the real answer is The Beatles! Their January 1969 rooftop tour used a PA system so powerful it brought a major city to a standstill, and caused the tour to be cancelled after only one show.

Clair Bros started in the mid-60s, and were also at the vanguard of most innovations in PA systems. They have a history section here:

History - Clair Brothers

Showco (which Clair recently bought) was established in 1970. The late, great Bruce Jackson founded JANDS in Australia in the late 60s, but is best known for the work he did with Clair Bros from 1970 on.

 

I thought it was during the 66 tour that they had the sound guy who was working for The Remains to do the amplified sound for a few shows. I think his name was Bill Hanley.

 

This is Hyde Park '69, so Watkins and WEM. I could see the Stones saying, yeah we'll have some of that next time.



It's kind of cool to look at the list of Concert Reviews and Info here here The Hyde Park Free Concerts 1968-1971 and with some pictures starting on that second show onward, you can see a big leap starting in '69 (not that this extends as a wider phenomenon of course; just interesting to see)

I've never found much on the Stones '69 PA frankly, not many pictures nor information on if it was theirs, rented etc. This is supposedly Detroit '69. From what I have casually gathered they didn't really seem to have their own PA as much as rider requirements that the promotors provide a higher level of PA for them, including FOH crew, and Cutler, or Chip Monck who designed the lighting and PA, drove home that rider aspect more than anyone else to date to get the results vs. ever using any one company or their own gear-- all this would take more digging though as I have not found much on the subject frankly.

 

They took it to the HIGHEST level, but weren't the first as they weren't playing really big places until 1972 or so. (I always fear to post this kind of info because I am invariably wrong)