Whatever happened to good R&B/Soul music?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by audiodrome, Jul 27, 2002.

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  1. audiodrome

    audiodrome Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    North Of Boston
    I come home after my gig and flip thru the channels and come across MTV in hope of hearing something refreshing or at least interesting and all I hear is the same "R&B" crap that passes for the "new soul music". Where are the black artists that actually record "songs" with actual chord changes and bridges, etc. All I hear is a boring vamp that goes on and on with someone riffing and rapping with no melody in sight. Janet Jackson, Mariah Carey, Mary J. Blige - it's all the same ****. Where are the new Stylistics, Spinners, Cornelius Bros, Stevie Wonders, etc. Maybe they are out there somewhere, but they sure as hell aren't in the mainstream.
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    They went out of style.

    Think about it. To a teen, that's music of their parents or grandparents.

    Outsville.


    :(
     
  3. Ian

    Ian Active Member

    Location:
    Milford, Maine
    It's probably cheaper for the record companies to have a crappy songwriter (Babyface for example) stamp out yet another piece of dreck, find a nobody who can do a lot of vocal acrobatics and sing very nasally (Goodness I hate that), and have the producer run a music program that a three year old came up with than it is to hire real singers, songwriters and musicians.
    The good ones are out there... somewhere
     
  4. Ian

    Ian Active Member

    Location:
    Milford, Maine
    Sad but true:cry:
     
  5. aashton

    aashton Here for the waters...

    Location:
    Gortshire, England
    Where do you get the bus to Outsville - I think I want to go shoppping in their record store and talk to some of the folk who live there :)

    At least all those class acts you list audiodrome have given us a great legacy of music to enjoy.

    All the best - Andrew
     
  6. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    Ditto!:mad:
     
  7. rontokyo

    rontokyo Senior Member

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    Not to be some sort of wise guy or anything, but when such groups as the Stylistics and Cornelius Bros hit, I was bemoaning the loss of such heartful--dare I say "soulful"--sounds as the classic Stax and Fame Studios Wilson Pickett, Aretha Franklin, Sam and Dave, Otis Redding and Etta James. All to say that yes, I hear you loud and clear regarding the current state of affairs of so-called "R&B" music, but it's been a loooonng time since soul music worked up much of a sweat.

    To further illustrate how much music--the CULTURE--has changed, it was during the 50's when the really cool black kids were literally singing under street lights or in school shower rooms--singing, if you can imagine it, LOVE songs with harmonies to melt your heart. Kids the same age now are still "singing" [is rapping "singing"?], but it's mostly posturing and bragging about knocking girls up, killing cops--in fact, killing just about anyone who gets in their face. Much has certainly changed.
     
  8. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    :agree: Sad isn't.:mad:
     
  9. Mark H

    Mark H Senior Member

    Location:
    upstate N.Y.
    Check out the new cd by Soloman Burke. It's a winner!
     
  10. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    I prefer Stevie Wonder, Aretha, etc. over Mariah Carey or any of the so called current R&B artists as well.
     
  11. CM Wolff

    CM Wolff Senior Member

    Location:
    Motown
    You can find of some of the good stuff today if you looking for it. Try the india.arie album, or Angie Stone. Or heck, Robert Cray has been making great soul albums for years now, and his latest on Ryko is one of his best. Joe Louis Walker has always blurred the line between blues and classic soul and gospel and should not be missed. Actually, some of what may currently be categorized as "blues" in your local record store probably veers much closer to soul...

    Yes, classic soul albums are fewer and farther between, but they're there if you keep your eyes out and ears open.
     
  12. syogusr

    syogusr New Member

     
  13. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    The music has changed because society has changed. Back in the '50's, black kids were gathered around street lamps, doo-wopping to their ladies about the love they hoped they were going to get. Now, the kids are driving by those streetlamps, hoping to pop a cap in someone's ass. Yes, times have changed and perhaps not for the better. BTW, try to see the "Kings Of Comedy" DVD, in which Steve Harvey talks about this matter, and leads the audience in a sweet soul singalong. It's pretty funny, too!
     
  14. Aquateen

    Aquateen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Hip hop killed it.
     
  15. Larry Johnson

    Larry Johnson Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago area
    Try any Terry Evans disc, or (Bobby) King & Evans. The first 4 Terry Evans CDs feature Ry Cooder and his last, Mississippi Magic, sans Ry, is as fine a sounding SACD as I've heard yet.
     
  16. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    I'll be you guys were wondering where I was!:D

    Soul music has always changed along with society in general. We have seen it change with the struggle for making a living, to the civil rights era, to the Black Power and political stage, back to the wanting to be accepted, to the total dismissal of the predominant social values, to the apathetic times of today. This was even reflected by how Billboard magazine changed the title of the R&B oriented charts, from "race" music, to no chart in 1963-64, R&B, to Soul, to Black, and back to R&B.

    I started out with the soul of the 60s and the "Sound of Young America". After the riots, MLK, and America's young men were being brought home in body bags, and when MLK Jr was assaaainated, a whole new era of soul music evolved. This is where sould music really became interesting and more diverse. I lived with Aretha, James Brown and The Temptations, then came to know the Isley Brothers, Bobby Womack, O'Jays, Spinners, The Jackson Five, Barry White, Commodores, Ohio Players, and tons of others. Later came disco and the struggle for Black artists to maintain the soul. Some went disco, some straddled the line, and some stuck to R&B. Some went funk and avoided both. Those who made it through the disco era felt the worldwide disco backlash even though many artists didn't deserve it. That's when they latched onto the new game of trying to be accepted by the whits culture in the 80s, when anglo pop and MTV swept the nation. Examples of the were Shalamar, DeBarge, and and Michael Jackson. When those artists were seen as sellouts by many black people, many decided that the emerging hip-hop music was the ticket. NO sellout there, as many whites were either oblivious to rap or were turned off by the agressive, angry young black men. No slick, sophisticated, upwardly moble black music, just gritty, in-your-face sounds of the underclass in Reagan's AmeriKKKa.

    What happened? Black artists simply quit trying to please the white audiences and the older black audience. The downside of this is that this happened at the same time as the drug culture took a whole new turn with the emergence of crack cocaine. I don't have to tell you where all that led to. Gangs, gun violence...

    Anyway, back to music. We now have a whole generation of kids that were born in the early to mid 80s that only know about the hip-hop, hard rock, alternative, and country music. The rebellious ones are going to latch on to the most socially offensive music, so... These kids have had little or no exposure to the music we grew up with, so they have no point of reference of what WE consider "better" music. To them, Mary J. Blige IS a good singer. To them, vocal pyrotechnics is good singing. To them, real instruments and traditional song structure are ancient. But then, James Brown also broke down the traditional song structure thirty+ years ago with hits like "Cold Sweat" and "Doing It To Death". The new wave bands of the 80s did away with the idea of traditional instruments. Paul Mc Cartney, Prince, and Stevie Wonder did away with having to actually use a band at all! The young people of today see all the de-evolution of music as something WE did, not the hip-hoppers.

    Were am I going with this? I dunno. But I made some good points.
     
  17. audiodrome

    audiodrome Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    North Of Boston
    Just to go off on a related tangent... Talk about society influencing today's youth! I had a 15 year old Native American rapper in the studio the other day doing his own material, while his father looked on. This kid seemed very well adjusted and family oriented and he even had his girlfriend there "producing" him. To get to the point, his lyrics were shocking, as one would expect, but this took the cake - something along the lines of "I'm gonna spray your house and then I'm gonna put six bullets in your passenger side, six bullets in your kid's Happy Meal, making him spill his fries" His father's comment - "I don't think you should swear so much." And I thought I was being ballsy writing lyrics about cases of beer and smoking dope when I was a teenager! Very, very frightening... I'm thinking of moving up to Maine.
     
  18. mikenyc

    mikenyc New Member

    Location:
    NYC Metro Area
    There's not an audience for it anymore...only Old Farts like us, who remembers who Otis Redding was !

    It's not hip, here and Now !

    On this, here's a link to an interview with Lamont Dozier, in Digital ProSound News Online...I LOVE THE SHIRT HE HAS IN THE PICTURE !!!!

    http://soundwave.com/Htm/HomeSet1.htm


    See also a great interview with Bob Ludwig at....

    http://soundwave.com/Htm/HomeSet1.htm
     
  19. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    There's a few things out there that are listenable. The Most recent Musiq CD walks the line between everything that is wrong with R&B and everything that used to be right, but as a whole is pretty good. I thought Aaliyah was a better than average singer with better than average material before she passed. Craig David is fairly listenable but perhaps a little too smooth for his own good. The depressing stuff is when an act like Dru Hill releases a 75 minute CD with only one or two good songs and a bunch of dreck.

    ...a moment of silence to mourn the passing of Tony! Toni! Toné! 5-6 years ago. They had a good retro-modern approach to R&B.

    Regards,
     
  20. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Anyone have the Okeh R&B Box? 3Cds. Absolutely wild and amazing stuff on that label
     
  21. mikenyc

    mikenyc New Member

    Location:
    NYC Metro Area
    Just picked up the DVD of Rudy Rae Moore "Live at the Wetlands".

    Also..."Curtis Mayfield in Concert" !!!

    Very Wild ! Two of The Originals !
     
  22. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Tony! Toni! Toné! was one of the last great R&B groups. Mark Morrison and to a lesser extent, Joe, have also turned out some very good ol' skool style songs.

    Problem is, it all sounds like old school to most of the young targeted audience.
     
  23. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    :agree:
     
  24. MagicAlex

    MagicAlex Gort Emeritus

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Burke CD!

    Damn right, Mike! This CD is soulful! Hasn't left my player since I bought it 3 days ago. Doug Sax mastered this one too! Great cover of Dylan's 'Stepchild'. Check it out folks! :agree:
     
  25. syogusr

    syogusr New Member

    Re: Burke CD!

    This CD also shows Solomon's deep rooted morals to the umpteenth degree, and this is as good as R&B can get, period!!!!!
     
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