What’s more responsible for a change in bass?

Phono stage or a cartridge?

 

You gotta give people more than that.

The more details, the more help people here will be able to muster.

 

Way more detail!

 

Roger.

My cart is stuck at Soundsmith (Zephyr mk3) so I picked up a Hana ML low output cart. I also changed from a Manley Chinook to a Herron. Both the cart and the phono are new and only have about 2 hours total time.

I have lost all my bass. For instance, the stand up bass on Norah Jones album, Come Away With Me use to really hit hard but now is gone.

 

Either one, simply depends.............

 

You should experiment with loading and gain first.
-Bill

 

I have found bass to come and go during cartridge break in, so don’t rule that out.

 

The specs of the phono stage provide a clue:

Frequency response RIAA 20 Hz to 20 kHz ±0.1 dB at 10k Ohm output load impedance and higher
Distortion Less than 0.03% at 2.45 volts output at 1kHz at 20k Ohm and higher output load impedance (tube selection dependent)
Note: Lowest distortion and best performance occurs with output loading at or above 20k Ohms - this gives the most dynamic sound

So it seems that it's possible that the phono stage might not do so hot at the low loading and high gain required for the Hana ML cart (more distortion, less accurate RIAA EQ). I'd talk to the maker of the phono stage and let them know your cartridge specs. It's possible you just have a cart that's a bad match.

 

i have never had a new cart or phono lose that much bass.
it seems like the herron has infinite load resistsnce by default- and to lower it you need to install your own resistor. if true this is the reason you lost your bass.
consult the manual how to install a 100 ohm load resistor. no big deal but sucks if they didnt provide that option out of the box.

 

For the money you'd think the preamp would've come with a cigar box full of nicely labeled loading plugs...but I guess not.

A 100ohm resistor into a 47k preamp will give you a 32K ohm load. You'll need a different resistor value for a 100 ohm load, though I'm sure you knew that. Just putting it out there for OP. Again, I would consult the phono stage manufacturer.

 

i didnt know that, thanks.

 

Actually I was wrong. 100k ohm resistor into a 47k phono stages gives 32k ohm.

More explanation here:

Parallel Resistive Loading

Davey's chart only goes down to 1K ohm, and he does show the formula, but since this is a boutique product I'd contact the manufacturer to make sure one makes plugs of the right value.

 

Problem resolved.
Keith from Herron was great every step of the way and definitely goes above and beyond to help. I did several things in attempt to address the issue but I think really it is this Hana cart. It’s finicky and sensitive, I reset up the cart and it had changed from the original position. I’m thinking now with about 15 hours on her she has really come alive.

The Herron is hands down awesome.
Not only have all my system issues been resolved but this thing is banging. The bass is tight and low yet mature, detail...detail....detail. Fantastic. I had some time last night with the help of a TX Bourbon to really turn it up and listen to records I know well. Just amazing. I’m at about 15 hours and boy I can’t wait to see what the future holds. To be honest, I think the SoundSmith is better than the Hana so I look forward to that coming home.

 

Your main culprit is usually the drummer's girlfriend...

 

Maybe this was the main variable the whole time (the bourbon)......

 

I think you are misinterpreting the specs. It's just indicating that, as with most tube output preamps, the next stage (line preamp or integrated amp) should be high input impedance (> 20K) for best results since, unless you use a heavy feedback circuit in the output stage of the preamp (like many of the best phono preamps, IMO, the Herron doesn't use any negative feedback loops) or an added follower circuit, the output impedance won't be very low, and is limited in its drive capabilities. Nothing to do with the input side.

 

When I ordered my VTPH-2A from Keith he asked what cart I was using so he could send a number of "appropriate" loading plugs. My Hana ML liked 100 ohms (no longer own it). Also the Herron phono stage isn't the most tubey sounding unit, certainly not compared to the Manley. If you're using the Herron MC FET-based MC gain stage (instead of a SUT through the MM inputs) you're going to get even less tubey richness. My Herron sounds must better with a SUT. This could all explain some perceived loss of bass, but yes - so could the cart change.

 

I’m good and sounds fantastic. So you say you were using a MC through the MM with a SUT?

 

Yes

 

I think you're right. Sounds like OP figured it out by talking to the manufacturer.

 

Vta change?...tail down bass up?

 

Really I think it was all break in on the Hana and the re-setup. VTA hasn’t changed, I do fool with it as it’s on the fly but no, that was not the issue.

 

Yes, Keith, as in Keith Herron is fantastic to talk with. Great guy, plan on staying in touch.

 

Yep cartidges are probably the only component that i will 100% agree there is a break in period

 

Its only my second one, the change is insane.
The Herron was new too, so might have played a part, but around the 10-15 hour mark, bam!