What's the speed of your turntable?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by TVC15, Jul 12, 2015.

  1. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker sh.tv member number 666

    Location:
    Northern VA, USA
    Two of my turntables are Japanese DD Quartz locked and the third has a strobe so I'm not sure what these kinds of apps would do for me.
     
  2. RandelPink

    RandelPink The camel wore a nightie

    Location:
    LA
    I can hear the difference in mine for sure, it's subtle but its there. Belt driven TT measuring 33.49 consistently. Kind of a bummer but I'm looking into some modifications.
     
  3. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    RP, I want to better understand your situation. First, let me say ( in the interest of full disclosure :D ) that I am not a person who can hear absolute pitch. Second, I am not trying to criticize you in any way, I simply want to understand why you want to modify your TT ( since it is not listed I have no idea what or how you plan to modify it ). The difference between 33.49 RPM and 33.33333.... RPM is slightly less than 0.5%. Can you really hear that difference in pitch? Based on my personal experience I think that it is far more important how steady your TT's speed is rather than how accurate it is. Let me explain. For over a decade is used a VPI TNT-HR for my TT which is a belt driven table. Then about two years ago I was fortunate enough to get a VPI Classic Direct TT. A reasonable case can be made that this TT has one of the finest (if not the finest) turntable motors in the industry. I measured the TT's speed using the old fashion strobe method and as near as I can tell from the strobe the speed is 33.33333... RPM. Since I cannot hear absolute pitch being perfect speed did not impact me, however, what did amaze me was how much more stable the whole acoustic image is with this TT because in addition to a very accurate speed it has a very stable speed. I have been told by others ( although I have not researched this) that it is common for people to be able to hear a variation in pitch where as hearing absolute pitch is a much more rare ability. I hope you understand now why I wondered about your modification plans.

    I should also mention that the other quality about the Classic Direct that really impressed me is how quite the TT is. The TT's rumble is estimated to be -90 dB ( it is estimated because measuring rumble that low is difficult to do ).
     
    Panama Hotel and RandelPink like this.
  4. skimminstones

    skimminstones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bexley, UK
    according to my android app my thorens td160 runs at 33.6, should i be worried? cant say ive ever noticed anything being too quick to be honest. its also showing 45.1 rpm although i never listen to 45s anymore. I did replace the belt a couple of weeks ago, would it just need to stretch a little to get it closer to 33.3?
     
  5. Helom

    Helom Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    Those apps are typically inaccurate by a good 2/10s of an rpm, so I wouldn't worry. My Thorens maintains near perfect speed measured by the KAB Speedstrobe which is far more accurate than any phone app. However, I do have very stable power at my outlets, and that's part of the equation with these motors. When I had a Music Hall Cruise Control, I had to set it at 33.6 RPM to get 33.3 as measured by the strobe disc. Without the controller, it still measures 33.3. I'm not sure what to make of that.
     
    4011021 and skimminstones like this.
  6. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    I wonder how accurate Turntabulator really is. I ran it several times and had measures from 33.25 to 33.35 including 33.33. We need to trust that both the app and the phone's hardware can detect such small variations. Not sure if they really can.
     
    SteelyNJ likes this.
  7. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    KAB strobe is what I use, I think mine is 15 years old.
     
  8. RandelPink

    RandelPink The camel wore a nightie

    Location:
    LA
    Hi Tony, thanks for the response and no offense taken at all. I am currently using the Shinola Runwell TT (VPI colab) which does not have a speed control. One thing I haven't yet factored in is the friction of the stylus on the vinyl as I have only measured speed on an empty platter. I have a very good ear for sounds and voices and have played guitar/ukulele for over 18 years which has given me, IMO, a great deal of sensitivity to tones. Most records I do not notice it on, but particularly singled out instrument solos I can notice (i.e. guitar solo's, piano intro's etc.) when not accompanied by the rest of the band/group. Most recently, it was while playing Safe As Milk by Captain Beefheart. The opening track has a very brief slide guitar intro before the vocals, this is what I noticed didn't sound quite like what I was used to. The vocals that follow are again alerted just slightly. The only mod I was considering would be belt experimentation since I've read that thicker belts will cause platters to run faster. I have been very impressed with the TT over the last several months but on certain records, I notice the change in pitch. this is what prompted to download the Turntabulator app, which if its accurate has been measuring consistently 33.49 RPM.
     
  9. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    I am glad you like Runwell TT and I understand now that you do notice the speed setting. I saw the Runwell at a Shinola store in Soho NYC (I cannot recall if the store was a pop-up or permanent). I was very impressed with the Runwell. I seemed very solid and well built.
     
  10. RandelPink

    RandelPink The camel wore a nightie

    Location:
    LA
    Very solid and well built, my only complaint (other than the RPM issue) would be cost. I was told when I purchased that these would never be considered for any discounts as the revenue margin was very small... Well, not only can you find 'open box' Runwells for about 25% off MSRP, Shinola also has year end sales which I found out do honor their Audio products and the savings is 40%... I would have loved to save a grand if only I just waited a few months.
     
  11. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    It happens to all of us. You buy something and a few months later find it cheaper or they bring out a new model that you like much better than what you have and it only cost 5% more. We all just do the best we can.
     
    Tullman and RandelPink like this.
  12. 14 Cheerleader Coldfront

    14 Cheerleader Coldfront Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    RP6 w Groovetracer sub and stock black belt = 33.4 via RPM Calculator for android.

    I think the all-stock RP6 in my second system measures slightly faster.

    Btw can you tell I love the Rega RP6?
     
  13. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    The strobe on my platter rim is steady. I assume this means the speed is accurate.
     
    PhilBiker likes this.
  14. seed_drill

    seed_drill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tryon, NC, USA
    My turntable has a quartz lock mechanism that prevents it from engaging if it doesn't reach true speed.
     
    PhilBiker likes this.
  15. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    I have RPM Calculator. My 19-year old Pro-Ject 1.2's original belt was producing 33.0. A replacement belt from lpgear produced 32.8. A new Pro-Ject belt gotten this week did 33.0.
    However, the belt taken from the Music Hall 2.2 in the next room produced 33.3. The new Pro-Ject belt then produced 33.3 on the 2.2, so everyone is happy. Go figure....
     
    Robert C and 4011021 like this.
  16. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    :laugh:
     
    SpeedMorris likes this.
  17. Isaac K.

    Isaac K. Forum Resident

    I thought I had posted this here but I guess not. There must be a duplicate thread. But anyways, updating my phone from an iPhone 5 to an iPhone 7 improved the rpm measured by my app from 33.92 to about 33.42 (roughly). So yeah, take the results with a grain of salt. They aren't particularly trustworthy.
     
    SteelyNJ and 4011021 like this.
  18. bluesaddict

    bluesaddict High Tech Welder

    Location:
    Loveland, Colorado
    Couple week old P6 with NEO/PSU 33.3 and 45.1 via RPM Calculator for android.
     
  19. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener Forum Resident

    Location:
    united kingdom
    bluesaddict likes this.
  20. Bob_in_OKC

    Bob_in_OKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    Some of the comments on the amount of error early in this thread were interesting, when you considering rounding has to occur somewhere. In theory, the correct speed is 33 1/3, rather than 33.33. A display of 33.33 had to round off further digits past the two it displays, so assuming the rounding is to the nearest it could have been anywhere from 33.325 to 33.335. A display of 33.34 could have been anywhere from 33.335 to 33.345. A display of 33.34 isn’t necessarily off by .01. It could be off by less than .002. A display of 33.33 could be off of 33 1/3 by as much or more than 33.34.
     
    Byrdsmaniac, SteelyNJ and 4011021 like this.
  21. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    It is impossible to measure exactly 33 1/3, it's a repeating decimal. Somewhere we must make an approximation.
     
    SteelyNJ likes this.
  22. cadeallaw

    cadeallaw Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dayton, OH
    My Clearaudio was a good rpm off... adjusted the speed with the little screw thingys and now it is perfect
     
  23. eflatminor

    eflatminor Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    You can play with the belt as others have suggested (talc, new positions, new belt, etc.) or I would think you could but a power conditioner/speed controller from Nottingham...the same one that comes with the DAIS and Anna Log. Not sure if they sell them separately, but they should!
     
  24. eflatminor

    eflatminor Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I'm using the Sutherland Engineering Timeline. Overkill? Probably, but I like the notion of being able to measure the speed while the stylus is in the groove and with the weight of any record clamp you might use taken into consideration. [​IMG]
     
  25. chili555

    chili555 Forum Resident

    I agree with your post in its entirety. However, if anyone here thinks that they can accurately discern the difference between 33.333333333... rpm and 33.34 rpm, I will be shocked. Moreover, if any of our turntables can, with laboratory grade equipment, be shown to have less wow than +- 0.01 rpm, I will be even more shocked!

    What I got from this thread and what I think most of you get, is to check the speed by whatever means possible and correct it to get as close to 33.33 rpm as shaky hands and trimpots can get you.
     
    bluesaddict likes this.

Share This Page