What's with all the Deutsche Grammophon bashing?

I've seen in previous threads the Yellow Label is often not kept in great consideration by many of you folks.

Now, my only issues with DG is their uber cheesy "originals" vinyl-like label and the fact that they seem to have something to do with Von Karajan being regarded by the masses as ze only one.

Anybody cares to explain what is it that they get systematically wrong?
And, who does it better?


Thanks a lot

 

DG has been around a long time and it's kind of hard to make any blanket statements about them. They have an amazing stable of talent. But they have a pretty dicey history of sound quality. Late seventies to early ninties recordings were pretty consistantly awful IME. Who does it better? Hmmm. RCA and Mercury in the fifties. Decca/London in the sixties and EMI in the seventies. Lyrita, Harmonia Mundi anytime.

 

DG

DG gets criticized for its recordings being rather "airy" and less direct. Also they were early in adopting digital recording.

I have several of their recordings and like the vinyl quality.

Scott

 

Downright mucky, sometimes, and multi (over) miked and mixed and all that.

But they're some of the most plentiful, common (and cheap) classical vinyl around, so they're hard to pass up, especially for the stable of talent they had. And their pressings tend to be good, in my experience.

 

Bad mixes... cold digital sound of their first CDs.

 

Label stickers, that is.

 

DG Again

"But they're some of the most plentiful, common (and cheap) classical vinyl around, so they're hard to pass up, especially for the stable of talent they had. And their pressings tend to be good, in my experience."

+++++++++++++++++++++++

I didn't want to sound as though I don't think well of DG albums. I think so many of them (I have more than a few myself) sound good and and are usually pressed on quality vinyl, especially the German ones.

I am not a hard core Classical listener so take my opinions with a grain of salt. I am in tune enough with these matters that I have definitely noticed the DG bashing that you refer to.

Scott

 

There is one school of belief that most of the DG recordings, especially LP, were released with inverted polarity, which generally leads to a rather dull, lightweight, and less involving sound. Many people don't hear the effects of inverted polarity, at least consistently, and it can be a complicated issue with multi-miked recordings. But for me I do find DG LPs much better when I use the polarity button on my phono amp.

Even then I generally find DG recordings a little "lightweight." On CD this was exacerbated by early digital technology. I haven't bought any DG recordings recently except for Elvis Costello's "North." That one has great sound, so maybe they've gotten better.

John K.

 

Oh.
My copy of Karajan Ninth has written somewhere on the label "remixed by blah blah", which made me think "wtf?" but then I thought it was an exceptional occurence.
It does sound a tad bidimensional and metallic, sometimes.
But I'm frankly quite happy with a few other releases, as Karajan's Mahler stuff from the 60s.

The point is, I thought multimiking was an extremely uncommon practice in classical music, especially given that you strive for a realistic sound image unlike multitracked rock, pop, etc.

What's the point in it?

 

Uh, I have a few late 80s Davis/Arrau recordings on Philips.
They sound unbelivable.
In a bad way, I mean.

I don't know if it's just me, but... one of the piano greats of the 20th century and a medium sized ensemble can apparently be made to sound so very close to a poor midifile played on an early Roland SC to my ears.

I don't know what it is, excessive multimiking, denoising, compression, I don't really know, but that stuff sounds ridiculous to me.

Since I got a decent system its poor-ish quality drove me away from it, which is a pity as I love the late Arrau.

 

CD or LP?

Also, want to tell us about your decent system?

 

There are some who like sonic spectaculars. To me it sounds like your being dragged by ears around the instruments by someone saying "hear THAT drum, now for the cymbals !"
DG in the early nineties sought to create a cult around the 'Tonmiester' and manipulating the mix from what they called soundboxes (in reality more like an op-amp followed by a A/D convertor) balancing it was all part of that scene.
The idea of the engineer in overseeing the capture of the performance through microphone positioning in space seemed lost.

 

multimiking became the norm rather than the exception by the mid seventies and DG was very much one of the worst offenders.

 

To accent featured artists, soloists or sections of the orchestra.

 

Also called 'spot miking.'

 

CD, ovgorz, natuerlich, certamente.
I don't think those recordings have ever made it to LP, AFAIK by 1990 Philips and DG had already kissed vinyl goodbye, right?

Nothing to write home about, a TEAC CDP1250, a 1979 Technics amp I've kinda inherited, two indiana line bookshelf speakers (you may have never heard of them, but they are big in Italy) on a couple of brand X speaker stands.
Nothing spectacular, but it works fine, maybe also because of careful positioning and a smallish yet mostly dead room.

BTW, I've once tried out an audiophile T-Amp clone on loan from a friend, I liked it, apparently much much better, clear and less "oomphy" than my dinosaur amp. I may consider an upgrade.

 

I would love it if you cared to elaborate, seems like an interesting story

 

Oh, lots of Claudio Arrau recordings are on records. Maybe more than CDs, even. He started recording around 1960, and he died around 1990.

I was asking about your stereo mostly to assess what kind of surface noise you're dealing with if you're listening to classical LPs. Now I know: none. Good for you.

 

Karajan Ninth? I didn't know Karajan had composed a ninth. Seriously, which composer, Beethoven or Mahler, and which version? Karajan recorded both for DG more than once.

 

I believe that DG has been loved by music fans and dreaded by audiophiles for decades. Their talent roster was amazing (but I can't stand Karajan personally, but I loves me some Martha Argerich ), but I've found the sound of their 60s and 70s LPs to be inconsistent.

Sometimes very good, sometimes really bad. But most labels were like that. Hell, pretty much everything I've heard on Angel LPs was a disaster (way better off looking for the EMI versions).

One trend of DG I do notice during the 70s is how they'd cut an LP with less bass so the grooves stay really far from the center. Like a 20-minute side resembles a 12-minute side. I'm assuming they wanted to avoid any inner-groove distortion, but it came with a huge cost.

dan c

 

Indiana speakers? Cizek by any chance?

 

Of course, but the recordings I'm talking about are those he made with Sir Davis between '87-'89

 

Diz wan: http://www.amazon.ca/Karajan-Gold-Sym-Ludwig-Beethoven/dp/B000001GJR

 

Me loves Martha very much too.

Never notice that personally, but I'm therefore not surprised they embraced CD pronto.

 

Nope, "Indiana Line" is the manufacturer's brand name.
http://www.indianaline.it/en/prodotti.php
They are very popular with italian audiophiles, mostly because they are sold at bargain prices and yet are decently built.