Where is the tube warmth and magic?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by geodiak, Feb 5, 2016.

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  1. geodiak

    geodiak Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rhodes, Greece
    Hi,

    I listen today the Primaluna dialogue premium integrated with vienna acoustics beethoven baby grand speakers.
    The sound was bright and harsh and it was a bit disappointing for me because i wanted to like this amp, so many great reviews and great features such auto bias .
    My speakers are the cremona auditor m do you think the sound will be smoother and have that tube magic than the viennas with the prima luna?
     
  2. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    Is this brand new stuff that hasn't broken in yet? What are your sources? Cd, vinyl, streaming? Need more info.
     
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  3. tubesandvinyl

    tubesandvinyl Forum Resident

    Too many variables. Tell us more.

    Good tube gear sounds very nice.
     
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  4. captwillard

    captwillard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville
    Prima Luna stuff is modern tube gear. It will lean towards neutral vs warm. Of course, you can change the tubes and cables to add color, if you like.
     
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  5. advanced101

    advanced101 Forum Resident

    My mcintosh c2500 lost out to my primaluna dialogue premium preamp this week, so it is good stuff. Im on a preamp Merry go round, but I think the PL is staying for a while.

    1. Needs 150 hours break in, until then it is all over the place. And quite frustrating.
    2. Stock it leans toward Neutral
    3. Sounds like modern tube gear
    4. Tube rolling can flavor it the way you like. Sounds like you would prefer a set of nos mullards
    5. Prima luna + sonus faber is a well reviewed combo.
    6. IME sonus faber is warmer than vienna.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
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  6. 33na3rd

    33na3rd Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW Washington, USA
    What output tubes do you have in there?

    If you want warm, it's hard to beat the EL-34, but you won't have the power output of the bigger tubes.

    Some of the bigger newer power tubes sound more solid state to my ears, than MOSFETs do.
     
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  7. PearlJamNoCode

    PearlJamNoCode Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    If you're not hearing it, you're not spending enough. ;)
     
  8. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    If you want a more informed opinion you need to fully fill out your current equipment on your profile page.

    John K.
     
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  9. afroluffy

    afroluffy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Interesting take. No fan of the kt120 or kt150 I assume?
     
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  10. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    hard to explain the tube sound. more liquid, more warm, natural, smooth and details often more coherent within the image. In general of course.
     
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  11. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    I don't know about your specific amp, but, as a general matter, a lot of tetrode/pentode amps are NOT particularly warm sounding. Some of the leanest and most brittle sound I have heard have been delivered by some such amps, particularly if they employ current-production 6550, KT-88 and KT-120 tubes. I understand that Prima Luna amps can run a lot of different tube types; I would try EL-34s and 6CA7s (NOS would be preferable). In this family of tubes, my favorite are 6L6s, although they will not deliver as much output as most of the others in this family.
     
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  12. Synergy, one of the great things about tube amps is how many ways they can be tweaked. Types and brands of tubes, along with cabling can, in some cases make dramatic changes in a tube amp sonic performance.
     
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  13. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    exactly. often in shop, gear has not been used long enough. break in always smooth the sound and everything becomes more relaxed. especially tube amp where tube, transformers and caps needs run in, you must make sure the gear you try have been used for over 200 hours.
     
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  14. Paully

    Paully De gustibus non est disputandum

    Location:
    Tennessee
    Sounds like someone needs to take a 300B amplifier out for a spin.
     
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  15. 33na3rd

    33na3rd Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW Washington, USA
    I wouldn't say that. It's just that I prefer things just a bit warmer than neutral.
     
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  16. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    If your looking for warm and romantic sounding new tube gear it is hard to find. I would qualify very few new tube amp and pres as warm and lush these days.

    In the price range of the PL gear I'd recommend Line Magnetic or used Leben gear. For more expensive gear you could check out Conrad & Johnson. Quicksilver gear is also a place to look. Also tube rolling can get you some of the way there but most new tube gear is just not designed to have that sound. Trust me. I've looked long and hard and the gear I mentioned above is what I've found to come closest to the warm, lush, romantic sound that I associate with tubes. Currently I'm using a restored Fisher 500c. My next step amp wise is going to be a Line Magnetic 218ia.
     
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  17. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    Don't know about your Sones Faber Cremonas but my Anniversario's are an idea match for my Ayre solid state equipment, wouldn't want it any warmer.
     
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  18. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    I think @ServingTheMusic started a thread recently about this topic. Check it out. It had lots of good recommendations.
     
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  19. geodiak

    geodiak Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rhodes, Greece
    Thanks all for the suggestions and comments !

    Maybe primaluna wasn't my cup of tea or probably has not been used long enough ( The dealer told me that the amp was new and not broken yet).
    I will listen more tube amp brands like line magnetic , jadis and Conrad & Johnson in the next days.
     
  20. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Jadis makes nice sounding gear. The only thing I don't like about them are their use of circuit boards in their entry level gear. I would prefer point to point wiring in 5+ grand equipment just for longevities sake. Their gear does look and sound great though.
     
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  21. Shiver

    Shiver Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    PrimaLuna user here, and wouldn't say it's a warm sound IME. Pretty lush and fulsome but also detailed and neutral (what I wanted). Certainly not harsh though. I got better overall sound with upgraded all valves but again didn't aim for warmth as such. Certainly found a more 'liquid' (less dry) sound moving from the stock KT88s to Winged C El34s.
     
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  22. geodiak

    geodiak Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rhodes, Greece
    Well, i listen today the Jadis orchestra reference SE and it was smooth and sweet although it is a hybrid design solid state in the pre stage and tube in the amp.
     
  23. LeeH

    LeeH Active Member

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Isn't PL push pull design? If so try getting hold of a single ended design such as Mastersound or Audio Note, far superior in my opinion
     
  24. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    I think the whole "warm and lush" thing has gotten to be a bit of a misnomer. My experience with tubes comes from a Fisher 500B receiver and a Conrad Johnson PV5 preamp (which I brilliantly blew up). My first impressions from these pieces of gear wasn't from the sound suddenly being "warm and lush." My initial thrill came from the improved detail and sparkling, airy treble. I've always had speakers that accentuated a good clean midrange, and I think that's what you also get from tubes. If people are expecting a warm sound and lush bass to be the raison d'etre for going with tubes, I think they're going to be disappointed. To me the "tube magic" is clarity, delicacy, and spaciousness.
     
  25. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    To your characteristics I'd add fullness/fleshed out/3D--in other words, good tube gear makes it seem more like there are real people producing the music.

    John K.
     
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