Which Pro-Ject tube preamp do you recommend?

Got two solid state preamps: Rega Fono MM MK3 and Cambridge Audio 651P. Now wanna check some tube phono preamp as well.

I was thinking about one of those Pro-Ject models:

1. Tube Box S
2. Tube Box S2
3. Tube Box DS
4. Tube Box DS2

Which one do you recommend?

My budget is up to $700, but don't wanna overpay for the features I will not be using.

Thanks, Adam.

 

Hifi store told me that the S and S2 aren't very good. I actually have a recent thread for you regarding DS vs DS2. Music a Direct has the DS for $400, cheaper than the S.

Pro-Ject Tube Box: DS vs DS2

 

With your budget, I'd look at the Jolida JD9, new or used

 

Great, so what’s your verdict so far? This?

 

Yes. Plan on starting with the Mofi Studiophono (solid state) first before potentially getting the Tube Box DS.

 

What do you think about the Jolida JD9 option? People seem to recommend it against Projects.

 

People recommended it to me. Looks good, and people seem to like it. It does take up more space, though. I would seriously consider the Jolida JD9.

 

I’ve had many people tell me that the basic PhonoBox is better than any of the TubeBoxes. I have one of the TubeBox 2SE and it’s pretty good, but I’m not sure it’s better than my Phonomena or iPhono were.

 

If only going with MM cartridges, you could get a full tube preamp instead of those opamp/tube buffer types like Pro-Ject, Jolida, Vincent, Bellari, etc, though the $700 limit would mean a kit if wanting to keep it USA-based, there's a recent thread about starting a kit build of the Vacuum Tube Audio PH-16 (full kit with tubes is $700). It's actually a JFET/tube input circuit for low noise and MC support, but the rest is all tubes, including power supply rectifier. PH16-X version is a bit cheaper ...







There's also lots of Chi-Fi tube preamps based around the EAR834 starting around $200 assembled if you just want to get a taste of full tube preamp goodness on the cheap, there's a few people around here that have one of them ...

 

So those Pro-Ject models are hybrids?

 

Yes, all the lower cost tube phono stages use solid state input and gain stages, typically op-amps. I think the DS2 uses the popular Burr Brown OPA2134. Pro-ject even makes a big deal about the Tube Box S2 being their first product to feature a fully discreet circuit design without using any op-amps, just tubes and transistors.

But I'm not saying they aren't good preamps, most users love them, and it's a more economical way to get a little taste of tubes, but a full tube preamp would typically have more tubes and a much higher voltage supply. And a much higher cost to roll tubes

 

Dave, which one from my list above would you recommend the most? My aim is to get a little taste of tubes within the budget of $700, to notice the difference to those two solid state preamps I have. Don't wanna overpay.

Still, not good at understanding those technical specifications.

Can I for example upgrade tubes in those projects for better sound?

 

Yes you can do some tube rolling and possibly find a sound character you like. If you're aiming for any of those Pro-Ject phono stages then go for the DS2. But if you want to widen your search; I believe I've advised you before to look at the Trigon Vanguard II or even the Vanguard III- they are both solid state phono stages but they are among the most versatile and best in their respective price ranges. Though I'm a tube phono stage fan I would take any of those two Trigons over the Pro-Ject phono stages that you've on your list...

 

Yes I remember your Trigon advice, but if I go for full solid again I would probably check Lehmannaudio BLACK CUBE. Why DS2 over DS? What more do I get? Thank you for your input

 

I own 3 of them: S, S2, and DS.

S sounds fine, but has reliability issues.

DS works like a charm and sounds great, the tubes are not just a buffer, but an actual output stage. Never an issue.

S2 is discrete - no op-amps. Tubes are an output stage, not a buffer. Sounds great.

The DS2, which I do not own, is good if you want two TT's hooked up, it also has more adjustments on the front panel. Otherwise it may be identical in sound to the DS, which is to say - it sounds good. Whether the added convenience of the DS2 is worth the extra expense - is up to you to decide.

 

Thank you! Can you elaborate on DS a bit more please? Since it's a hybrid do those tubes work or rather are for looks there? Do they make a difference? I would like to roll them in the future.

 

I have always been very fond of the EAR834, but the prices today are absolutely insane on this product. I fail to see anything that would justify the current prices on this product.

In as much as it is an older design and can legally be cloned, it seems like an excellent alternative to op amp's and higher priced tube designs.

Have you ever had a chance to listen to any of the ERA834 clones?

 

I know it's a long shot but if you can find a Parks Audio Budgie, don't hesitate, grab it. Checks all the boxes.

 

The DS is a steal at the current US 399 street price and I challenge if the people dismissing it have actually heard it during an extended demo. When I owned it I became sold on tubes to the point of going to an all tube system.
When the opportunity came to upgrade- I tried the Dynavector P75MKIII and even with the supposed dynavector cartridge synergy it did not sound any better then the TBDS really.
I did upgrade to a Lehmann Black Cube SEII and that one was a noticeable improvement - at approximately double the price of the TBDS.
If I didn't have tubes in my system already I would probably take a chance on the EAR clone- but the gain is really high for my LOMC cartridges and I would be concerned about too much gain because my cartridges have never sound good with that much gain. Same for the Jolida- huge amounts of gain.

 

Well, it can't really be "legally" cloned outside of China, the design is still in production by EAR and it is their intellectual property. The ones I posted above aren't really true clones, they just generally follow the circuit schematic in a different form factor. On the other hand, you can buy near exact clones from Douk, it even has copper tape covering the EAR name on the front when sold outside of China. I think that's a pretty slimy practice, the ones above, not so much. I haven't heard any of them, but @Kiko1974 has that one on top with the toroid, and we've talked a lot about it around here, along with his tube rolling adventures. Seems like a great buy if that lack of ethical business practices isn't an issue (and I'm not completely sure how much of an issue it is for me), and one could still probably make a lot of upgrades to it to improve the sound per articles by Thorsten Loesch and Romy.

I don't really have an opinion on those choices since I haven't heard any of them, but there are many others here that have used them and have solid opinions, so I think you are in good hands

 

I don't see anyone dismissing it in this thread. If you are talking about me, I was just explaining that it isn't a full tube preamp since it uses op-amps for most of the gain, and pointing out some possibly in his budget that have more tube content (though I forgot he was in Poland, so not sure of the logistics). And it's kind of hard to do MC gain with only tubes, just too much noise, usually needs a solid state input at least, or transformers, which is why I started my post with the MM statement. And I said most users love them, hardly what I'd call a dismissal

 

"DS works like a charm and sounds great, the tubes are not just a buffer, but an actual output stage. Never an issue."

Yes, the tubes in the DS are not just for show, and tube rolling does make a difference. There are quite a few references to that in various threads on this forum. The DS has very good sound even with stock tubes, very authoritative, and very quiet, to boot. For $400, it was a steal.

 

not you personally but i have read a lot about people just writing it off.

 

Thank you, that's what I wanted to know.

 

Hey guys what does this knob do in practice, English please